Acute Corticotropin-Releasing Factor Receptor Type 2 Agonism Results in Sustained Symptom Improvement in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis

Martin aka paused||M.E.

Martin aka paused||M.E.

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Irat

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No sure if I understand this image,but what he says is that he does not see how the model of learnt helplessness leads to long term fatigue ,deficiency in Zink etc? Right ?

But the body uses up supplies and even deep reserves of zinc at a rapid rate.when sick .It’s very common to become zinc-deficient when you have a virus, or when stressed,so in learnt helplessness one is in a symphatetic overdrive which of course is a stress mode, leads to reduction of immune system,and higher virus load etc.

Also mitochondrial malfunction can be seen in even psychiatric illnesess and just with any oxidative stress,and the learnt helplessness model is oxidative stress.

Learnt helplessness is a freeze response in the nervous system.



Ray pear talks about this model if one is interested.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/dark-side-of-stress-learned-helplessness.shtml


Anyway I can t see how targeting one pathway would be beneficial.the limbic system is far more than this.and not only about learnt helplessness...and limbic system controls the response to homeostasis treat ,which of course can lead to many downstream affects and abnormalties
 
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Learner1

Learner1

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+2

And agreeing with Van Elzakker's comments. Also very surprised that Lucinda Bateman went for the study based on the hypothesis.
Oliver3 said:
Both my brother and me have terrible anxiety. I don't dispute what you're saying but there must be another factor involved as he runs 10 km most days after a long day at work.
I'm mostly housebound. It feels like I never heal properly. Anything that stops the adrenal drive is very welcome tho
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Many cases on anxiety are linked to microbiome dysruption and/or copper/zinc imbalances.
Reading_Steiner said:
I also found out recently that multiple chemical sensitivity is caused by the brain, not the immune system.
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Interesting. All of the info I've seen is that it's blocked liver and detoxification processes not allowing toxins to be cleared.
Reading_Steiner said:
I had other psychological problems in the 5 years prior to all that, in the paper it says that other health problems or life problems, at a young age especially, correspond with increased rates of developing CFS.
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Many of us did not. This stereotype is perpetrated by those wanting to make this a psychiatric illness, including insurers who use it as a way to get out of paying disability claims.
seamyb said:
This talk of panic attacks is messed up. I had mad ones out of nowhere about 5 years ago, thought I was dying each time. Had about 3 of these per day. Went on the sertraline and they eventually went away over a few months. Not long after I came off sertraline a year ago I came down with CFS.

Did an SSRI pause my descent into chaos?
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Most serotonin is made in the intestines. Microbiome dysruption can lead to these symptoms.
bensmith said:
I read on s4me
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A little history here - s4me was started by a group of members from here who didn't believe in functional medicine, nutrition, microbiome dysruption, Rituximab and a bunch of other things, driven by a few very unpleasant people and decamped to form their own site. I take any of their conclusions with a grain of salt. While they do have some good info, they've also panned some very good things.
godlovesatrier said:
I just tried explaining the quality of study problem with someone on twitter the other day who had put out an article about immune drugs helping ME patients. Based on PR threads the drugs and indeed the studies haven't really proven out there original assumptions.
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Can you share that article please? A number of us have been helped by LDN, peptides, andrographis, Rituximab, gammaglobulins, colostrum, and other things that modulate the immune system.

The problem with any study is that each participant has different genes and environmental factors that makes us all unique. Just getting a bunch of ME/CFS patients together does not mean they share all they have the same version of this complex multi-organ system illness which makes studies very difficult.
 
Marylib

Marylib

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Diwi9 said:
I'm not seeing the results in the physical exertion section of the results. The main improvements were on patient self-reporting. The results of this study, especially being unblinded, are underwhelming. Cortene might be a tool in the toolbox, but it is no cure.
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At this point lots of us are just looking for a treatment that gives us a better quality of life and a cure seems unlikely. I'm sure many people with MS feel the same. I hope they can find the money to enable a subset or even a handful of people live a better life. Same with Ampligen. Just get it out there.
 
Boba

Boba

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Marylib said:
At this point lots of us are just looking for a treatment that gives us a better quality of life and a cure seems unlikely. I'm sure many people with MS feel the same. I hope they can find the money to enable a subset or even a handful of people live a better life. Same with Ampligen. Just get it out there.
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I‘m still hoping for a cure
 
Martin aka paused||M.E.

Martin aka paused||M.E.

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Learner1 said:
Many cases on anxiety are linked to microbiome dysruption and/or copper/zinc imbalances.
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And other imbalances/denutritions
Learner1 said:
Most serotonin is made in the intestines. Microbiome dysruption can lead to these symptoms.
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That's so important to understand when looking at king at serotonin lab results!
Learner1 said:
they've also panned some very good things.
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They are partly very well educated but also overskeptical and the thing you read through the lines is that they are seeking for the one study that shows the efficacy of a magic bullet.
 
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Ema

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bensmith said:
I read on s4me or whatever that they all think this trial is not promising at all. Kind of a bummer reading that. Really could use some help.
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I wouldn’t read too much into that. They are notoriously pessimistic. Nothing is ever promising In their eyes. This is just a tiny, preliminary study. Bateman wouldn’t waste her time if she saw no promise IMO.
 
Reading_Steiner

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Learner1 said:
+2

All of the info I've seen is that it's blocked liver and detoxification processes not allowing toxins to be cleared.
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It was explained to me recently in the mold subsection of this site, basically most of the time I can't smell the carpets in my house / bedroom but when I start to get MCS symptoms because of it I also become able to smell the chemicals responsible, in this case the sudden increase in sensitivity was triggered by another environmental toxin thats currently unidentified thats in a small building in my garden. I've never heard before these experiences of instances where humans smell becomes amplified to be more similar to a dog.
 
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perrier

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Martin aka paused||M.E. said:
+1
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Thanks Martin for posting the twitter comments. I read on S4ME a post that Snow Leopard posted saying that Fluge/Mella also believe the HPA axis is implicated. Am I to understand that Dr. Van E. does not believe that HPA axis is implicated? Certainly, the Cortene thesis is not complete. I so wish all these folks talked to each other more.
 
Diwi9

Diwi9

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Marylib said:
At this point lots of us are just looking for a treatment that gives us a better quality of life and a cure seems unlikely. I'm sure many people with MS feel the same. I hope they can find the money to enable a subset or even a handful of people live a better life. Same with Ampligen. Just get it out there.
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I agree, my comment was in reference to the company indicating this could be a cure.
 
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hapl808

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Learner1 said:
Many of us did not. This stereotype is perpetrated by those wanting to make this a psychiatric illness, including insurers who use it as a way to get out of paying disability claims.
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Yes. I had no particular physical or mental issues when I was a child. I was lucky to have a relatively privileged and happy childhood. My serious health issues didn't start until I got very sick while traveling in SE Asia after college.

Of course I think we can find cognitively biased correlations when we search for them. Are people who have health problems when they're young more likely to have health problems when they're old? That would make intuitive sense. But I think there's a danger in looking at very small uncontrolled sample sizes and making very large conclusions.
 
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Oliver3

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hapl808 said:
Yes. I had no particular physical or mental issues when I was a child. I was lucky to have a relatively privileged and happy childhood. My serious health issues didn't start until I got very sick while traveling in SE Asia after college.

Of course I think we can find cognitively biased correlations when we search for them. Are people who have health problems when they're young more likely to have health problems when they're old? That would make intuitive sense. But I think there's a danger in looking at very small uncontrolled sample sizes and making very large conclusions.
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You can't seperate mind and body anyway so it's a false argument to be laid at the door of m.e. sufferers.
 
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