Abilify alternative, Why it stops working for some & Mechanism of Action for ME/CFS

Hipsman

Senior Member
Messages
509
Likes
1,476
Location
Ukraine
TL;DR: Desipramine could be Abilify alternative, it has only 3 reports on PR and all are positive, one person apparently got into remission from it. More at the end.

I think I know why abilify stops working and I already talked about this with @Hip . I'll start by saying that receptor down regulation theory doesn't make sense to me, because:
1) It takes at least 3 months to happen, witch I think is very long compared to benzodiazepines.
2) I don't know other meds where there are only two groups of people when it comes to tolerance, you either develop it and it never goes away OR you don't experience it at all!

So what is the reason for tolerance in my opinion?
- It's bacterial resistance that happen in some people, because of the specific strains they carry as their pathogenic bacteria that causes their me/cfs. Basically it's the same reason why long term antibiotic courses cause bacterial resistance to form.

Wft am I talking about?
- I think abilify helps by it's antibacterial properties, specifically it is connected to Dr. Markov's me/cfs hypothesis (see here)

Abilify has antibacterial properties:
Six different antidepressants: phenelzine, venlafaxine, desipramine, bupropion, aripiprazole and (S)-citalopram have been tested for their antimicrobial activity against 12 commensal bacterial strains using agar well diffusion, microbroth dilution method, and colony counting. The data revealed an important antimicrobial activity (bacteriostatic or bactericidal) of different antidepressants against the tested strains, with desipramine and aripiprazole being the most inhibitory.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-74934-9

But this theory is no good if we can't prove it right or wrong, luckily, we should be able to do this relatively easy, just need a few patients who developed tolerance to Abilify to try Desipramine.

Desipramine has only 3 reports on PR and all are positive, one person apparently got into remission. Desipramine has significantly more antibacterial activity then abilify according to this figure, so might be even better then Abilify and it also has less side-effects - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-74934-9/figures/5
 
Last edited:

leokitten

Senior Member
Messages
1,461
Likes
3,708
Location
U.S.
Could be gut-brain connection dysfunction due to gut or gut immune system dysbiosis triggered by our initial viral infection and immune response. Could be causing autonomic dysfunction like it's been theorized but has anyone looked at it from the gut-brain axis?
 

leokitten

Senior Member
Messages
1,461
Likes
3,708
Location
U.S.
Could also be via the autonomic axis, where Abilify's known effects on pituitary-hypothalamic axis are helping to correct things in gut-brain connection, but it doesn't solve the real problem and after only a few months response starts to reduce
 

Hipsman

Senior Member
Messages
509
Likes
1,476
Location
Ukraine
@jaybee00 trialing Desipramine will put an end to our doubts, if it helps just like abilify, then we know the problem is in the bacteria, but if it helps significantly less then abilify, then we know that abilify's mechanism of action for ME/CFS probubly has nothing to do with bacteria. Win Win.
 

SlamDancin

Senior Member
Messages
417
Likes
899
They may both amplify dopaminergic transmission let’s say and so for that reason they may have more in common than this apparent anti microbial effect, which is interesting. I’m stuck taking 15 mg of Abilify