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A great lecture on erroneous thought in the practice of medicine

Annikki

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This lecture is about the all-too-many forms of erroneous thinking doctors engage in, presented by an actual doctor. The lecture isn't about ME, but the facts he shares about problems in how doctors think are tools are useful for getting better care.

He describes how the structure of the healthcare system feeds limited and unhelpful thinking in doctors. One example of this is the part of the video where he speaks about how the pay doctors receive influences their thinking.

He is a proponent of the ketogenic diet, which I really have no opinion on. I haven't heard of it being beneficial for ME, so ignore this part -unless it has helped your ME or someone else's. I tend to keep my focus narrowed down to things I'm sure will be helpful and this takes up all my time and energy. I've read zero about the keto diet- so don't ask me anything about it.

He taught me more shortcomings in how doctors think. They're not gods, but culturally, we sort of do frame them this way. They are human, so they can and do get things wrong. We know all about that one. ;)

Understanding is critical for changing things for the better.

The light of the sun may give us misery, but the light of the truth will give us healing.
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Dr Jerome Grouper is another Dr with a very clear view of Dr's "...stinkin' thinkin ...". He wrote a book, titled I think, How Doctors Think .... he emphasizes Dr's twin errors of stereotyping and anchoring, which translates to: they form an almost immediate opinion which often has nothing to do with the symptoms that you present with, and then they attach themselves to it like barnacles to a boat draft ....

Could you post a link to the lecture in question maybe, or did I somehow miss it :):)o_O .....
They're not gods, but culturally, we sort of do frame them this way.
Actually, they frame themselves that way, and we just go along with it. Our bad. But once you give a mouse a cookie .....
 
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raghav

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From my experience dealing with specialists for the past 40 years they try to fit your symptoms into a syndrome which is most suitable according to their area of specialization. So if you go to a neurologist with a set of symptoms he will do a best fit according to neurology, but if you go to a cardiologist he will do the same according to cardiology. They basically forget their basic medical degrees.

I told this once to a retired prof. of gastroenterology who is also an FRCP. He shouted at me. I told him in the heat of the moment, "just wait you will see crohns in Indian patients", to which he said I was absurd and that Indians dont get crohns. A few years later when I went back to him for another opinion the first thing he said was "How did you know Indians will get crohns?" I said "Ayurveda says so and it does not lie". He was shell shocked.

So it is always better to have a good general medicine specialist (one who actually practices day in and day out as a general medicine specialist and not just got a degreee of specialization in general or internal medicine) and work with him provided he is ready to listen to us. Most doctors say" You are reading too much from the internet, you google a lot is it ?" Avoid such doctors however good they may be. Many dont even do a thorough physical examination. They dont palpate the abdomen just because they are not a gastro is absurd. They go straight for the scans and blood test panels. It boils down to how many patients they can see in a given number of hours and how much they can claim from the insurance company. Trust me I have been writing software for US healthcare industry , both payers and providers, for the past 20 years. I know the mess the politicians and the pharma companies have made of it.
 
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From my experience dealing with specialists for the past 40 years they try to fit your symptoms into a syndrome which is most suitable according to their area of specialization.
There's an old saying around these parts, "Choose your specialist and you've chosen your disease ...."
Trust me I have been writing software for US healthcare industry , both payers and providers, for the past 20 years. I know the mess the politicians and the pharma companies have made of it.
Believe me, you're preaching to the choir here, only I could take it several degrees further, just too beat today to do it.


Just know, right there with you .... ditto re Ayureda ....
 
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they form an almost immediate opinion which often has nothing to do with the symptoms that you present with, and then they attach themselves to it like barnacles to a boat draft ....
I bet this is actually what almost virtually EVERYONE..does...in a whole variety of arenas.

we screen all inputs thru our own reality...sieve. We apply our standard thinking patterns to the issue at hand. We aren't that creative...unless pressed.

The Plumber does the same thing.

Even our brains are doing that with the Stop Sign. Somethign ahead- can be predicted and perhaps its likely a stop sign...so we stop..before our brains ACTUALLY know its a stop sign.

The time we saw- a baby bear. But you don't know what your looking at...hiking along a trail. There is some odd noise. Some moving object heading straight towards us. The brain- sees this object moving and starts to- classify it. Its a dog. Its a dog thats wet. Its a barking dog.

Thats a baby bear.

Oh where is the mother..OH- do not run,, turn and calmly go home. Thats a baby bear...with a mother just out of view.

I saw a mountain lion once and that took- an immense number of seconds to: discern. It was 30 feet away.
 
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I bet this is actually what almost virtually EVERYONE..does...in a whole variety of arenas.
Absolutely true, but especially damaging when the person doing it is allegedly a trained scientist, who's holding your LIFE in his/her hands and should be able to observe objectively. That's part of their training .... allegedly
we screen all inputs thru our own reality
We each have our own lens thru which we perceive everything around us, changing it's meaning and subtle colors .... again, not a desirable attribute in a trained healer.


Let's say he had a bad experience in high school with that beautiful blonde who laughed at him when he invited her to the prom. God help you if, when you enter his office, you're a beautiful blonde .... unless, of course, he's actually had those subjective negative feelings successfully trained out of him.
The Plumber does the same thing.
All the plumber can screw up is your sink, pipes, or toilet. Not pleasant, I admit, but nowhere near as deadly-bad as the Dr who screws up your diagnosis, your medication, your abdominal operation.
 
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Let's say he had a bad experience in high school with that beautiful blonde who laughed at him when he invited her to the prom. God help you if, when you enter his office, you're a beautiful blonde .... unless, of course, he's actually had those subjective negative feelings successfully trained out of him.
My doctor is entirely distracted by some young babe from an exotic foreign land...he went and married...younger than his own daughter. And no shame- pictures thru out the office. But he is sure in a good mood most of the time!
 
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@Annikki
GREAT VIDEO .... thank you so much for posting it ..... it was so refreshingly true that I almost wept.

We've all been dealing with the medical lies and the medical systems structural limitations and brainwashing and seductive BigPharma sales reps pushing drugs with big, big smiles and even bigger lies for so long that many of us are in real despair ....


The story of Dr Semmelweis broke my heart the first time I read it, and still breaks my heart every time I hear it ...

Like you, I'm not a big proponent of the Keto diet, but after this video, I love Dr Berry .....
 

Annikki

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Thank you, thank you, thank you! If I could find one word which has caused the suffering and death of so many of us, I'd use the word, "authority bias." Authority bias is defined by Wikipedia is:
Authority bias is the tendency to attribute greater accuracy to the opinion of an authority figure (unrelated to its content) and be more influenced by that opinion.[1] This concept is considered one of the so-called social cognitive biases or collective cognitive biases.[2] The Milgram experiment in 1961 was the classic experiment that established its existence.[3]

Humans generally have a deep-seated duty to authority, and tend to comply when requested by an authority figure.[4] There are scholars who explain that individuals are motivated to view authority as deserving of their position and this legitimacy lead people to accept and obey the decisions that it makes.[2] System justification theory articulates this phenomenon, particularly within its position that there is a psychological motivation for believing in the steadiness, stability and justness of the current social system.[5]
The worst atrocities of history trace their root to authority bias, Holocaust included. What I've had to accept with all the friends, and loved-ones I've lost over the hype of denial of the reality of ME and other "contested diseases", is that belief in authority is common to all people.

Never mind, that anyone who gives credence to authority figures over their perceptions, give their power over to lord-knows-who. Hitler couldn't have done squat without many obedient, gullible, ready followers.

Doctors are authority, just as much as any politician is. I've read that people regress to a child's frame of mind when they are sick and go to the doctor. Human nature is to not be questioning nor assertive when visiting the doctor, because people are vulnerable when they visit a doctor. I think it makes people dopey and prone to romanticize doctors.

These people haven't been around long enough to see the man behind the hospital curtain. If luck has it they get sick with ME, then they'll see it. Until then, they will, like naive children, give all their faith to these people.

The reality is that doctors are human beings, with all human frailties present. Period. End of story. Doctors aren't sacred, magical, holy beings, because no human being is that nor can be that. Period. Doctors have authority bias, too. That's why you have so many of them become lackies who dicount ME simply because some authority had the idea printed on a page of paper in some journal.

IMHO, the bulk of humanity thinks doctors are god. Doctors love that veneration, whether or not they deserve it. It's because there will always be people who get off from being treated like God. Those types are typically the last people who should be treated like God.

"All power corrupts." Indeed.

Authority only has the power which people give it. Maybe outsiders to the ME community are sitting ducks for the day they too become sick with a "contested illness." They are free to do that, yet naturally, there will be consequences for them.

Reality doesn't go away merely because people think it doesn't exist. I still wake up sick, regardless. Others of us still wake up sick! If any one of us could manage to stop imagining ME, do they not think we would readily do this? Seriously, I don't care what they say, who wants to be sick?!?

Anyone who believes there are people who want to be sick, is deranged. Period. Find me one person on this planet who'd say, "Gee- I want cancer!!"

Would I be surprised to see such a person couldn't be found?

I have to agree with what some authors have said, which is, "authority is our religion."
It is, and likely will continue to be until the bulk of humanity learns the hard way why this is bad practice. When our gods are mortal men, there's a problem.
 
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Terrific post, @Annikki, and I couldnt agree more, and I truly hear your pain.
Those types are typically the last people who should be treated like God.
You've hit on the core of this: because they're the last people who should be treated like Gods, and somewhere in their morass of denial they know that, they hunger for that adulation and complete abrogation of personal responsibility by their worshipers. They're small-souled, pinched, very little people. The worst of them (not all Drs, just the worst of them) became Drs so they could have that God-like position and posture, not to mention the money.
Period. Find me one person on this planet who'd say, "Gee- I want cancer!!"
Well, maybe not as impossible as relatively sane people like us would like to think. There's Munchausen's Syndrome. Not By Proxy, just personally-focused Munchausen's.


If luck has it they get sick with ME, then they'll see it. Until then, they will, like naive children, give all their faith to these people.
It is, and likely will continue to be until the bulk of humanity learns the hard way why this is bad practice.
Maybe. Personally, I think it will continue until people learn to think critically. Or think at all. Most of humanity is just begging for someone to tell them what to do, what to wear, what to eat, who they are, where they are, what they are ..... the list goes on and on.


So until the bulk of humanity decides to take personal responsibility, this will just keep on rollin' along.

Sad.
 

Annikki

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Terrific post, @Annikki

Maybe. Personally, I think it will continue until people learn to think critically. Or think at all. Most of humanity is just begging for someone to tell them what to do, what to wear, what to eat, who they are, where they are, what they are ..... the list goes on and on.
I've heard that authority bias is really about immature people, with mommy and daddy issues, who want desperately for someone to think for them. In other words, most people abhor taking personal responsibility.

When we are children, our parents think for us, explain the world to us, and guide us.
Admitting we are adults now puts the onus on us to figure out the complexities of the world around us. To successfully face and deal with these realities takes work, namely thought and effort.

The majority of people don't want to think- they're lazy. Order followers refuse to take personal responsibility for their thoughts and actions. Instead these sorts want a mommy and or daddy to think for them, and regard existing social institutions,and authorities as a surrogate mommy and daddy. They forget that they alone are responsible for their actions and this responsibility cannot be delegated to anyone else.

There's another side of it. Doctors particularly, also need to get a dose of reality and get the guts to face it. To admit that you have control over important outcomes such as death and life and to truly bear that responsibility is likely too much for them. Playing god is a way they cope. However, it in no way allows them to admit failure.

Some doctors skirt personal responsibility and just suck in what medical school teaches them, absurd or not. Admitting the reality, which is they're responsible for discerning truth and fiction and need to think critically about what they were taught sacred medical school (LOL) is too much for them. It takes serious guts to face that even college education can be limited. It's a rare person who can concede to the reality of an imperfect world.

Those among us who can face it, and stomach it, we know this is the better path. Doctors who can grasp the fact that misinformation is rampant as far as ME, will become good doctors. Those who can't and only parrot what medical school taught will become substandard doctors. We have to pay, yes, but still it is their failure to adjust and not our fault.

Someone here posted the quote from Voltaire, "Those who can be made to believe absurdities can be made to commit atrocities." Sadly I'm too wore out to remember who, but he or she nailed it.

To summarize, to have a decent world requires collective sacrifice and effort from everyone. Laziness and weakness will only breed misery. Order followers believe they can pass the buck onto others for their actions and behavior. It's a lie, and a dangerous one. Whether they like it or not, understand it or not, it is the order follower who makes harm happen in the real world- not the order giver.
 
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