$8 Million Clinical Trial of a Mitochondrial Booster Underway in ME/CFS

[Boba]

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2022/04/23/mitochondrial-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

This is pretty exciting. A Pharma Company from Japan plans a study together with Dr. Systrom.

 

[MonkeyMan]

Wow! Definitely exciting!

Is this the very first time a Big Pharma company has funded a trial for ME/CFS? I think so but somebody please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Incredible!!

Yesterday I went down the stairs. Processed some recycling, pulled up several tiny weeds. Breathed actual fresh moist cool air, gazed at sky.

Came up stairs.

There is no oxygen in my Body Right Now.

its EGAD scary.

 

[Boba]

Getting the mitochondria back to function won’t help with the something in the blood… That’s what my fear is.

 

[SlamDancin]

@Rufous McKinney You feeling any better? I know that air hunger feeling all too well myself

 

[MonkeyMan]

Getting the mitochondria back to function won’t help with the something in the blood… That’s what my fear is.

Who says there has to be something in the blood? It's just a theory. Nobody's found anything.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Who says there has to be something in the blood? It's just a theory. Nobody's found anything.

The something might be a waste product or other thing cells dispose of and put into exosomes....that might stem from an energy shortage or ATP shortage or mitochrondria being blow up or compromised by viruses. Possibly even in just a particular batch of cells or tissue.

But yes still theory.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

You feeling any better? I know that air hunger feeling all too well myself

Better...very slowly but yes Better thank you.

My air shortage is tolerable under normal conditions, horrible during acute episodes of severe flares.

(deleted something I already told you, egad)

 

[Boba]

The something might be a waste product or other thing cells dispose of and put into exosomes....that might stem from an energy shortage or ATP shortage or mitochrondria being blow up or compromised by viruses. Possibly even in just a particular batch of cells or tissue.

But yes still theory.

Didn’t Prusty show how the something in the blood fragmented healthy mitochondria?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Didn’t Prusty show how the something in the blood fragmented healthy mitochondria?

He looks mostly at HHV-6 and yes I think something fragments the mitochondria. He showed imaged of that.

But maybe its not "something in the blood"...

But I do seem to recall a recent confirmation that a different group used plasma on mice and that induced the problem....

 

[Boba]

He looks mostly at HHV-6 and yes I think something fragments the mitochondria. He showed imaged of that.

But maybe its not "something in the blood"...

But I do seem to recall a recent confirmation that a different group used plasma on mice and that induced the problem....

From what I can remember he put plasma of mecfs patients to healthy mitochondria which fragmented them. When they exchanged the plasma with plasma of HC the mitos healed back.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

From what I can remember he put plasma of mecfs patients to healthy mitochondria which fragmented them. When they exchanged the plasma with plasma of HC the mitos healed back.

so below: the virus induced the mito fragmentation and others changes not good. It could be transferred from plasma to other cells.

Here:

Human Herpesvirus-6 Reactivation, Mitochondrial Fragmentation, and the Coordination of Antiviral and Metabolic Phenotypes in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Philipp Schreiner, Thomas Harrer, Carmen Scheibenbogen, Stephanie Lamer, Andreas Schlosser, Robert K. Naviaux and Bhupesh K. Prusty
ImmunoHorizons April 1, 2020, 4 (4) 201-215; DOI: https://doi.org/10.4049/immunohorizons.2000006

https://www.immunohorizons.org/content/4/4/201

Adoptive transfer of serum from 10 patients with ME/CFS produced a similar fragmentation of mitochondria and the associated antiviral state in the A549 cell assay. In conclusion, HHV-6 reactivation in ME/CFS patients activates a multisystem, proinflammatory, cell danger response that protects against certain RNA and DNA virus infections but comes at the cost of mitochondrial fragmentation and severely compromised energy metabolism.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Here is reference to Goebel, et al. July 2021:

https://www.jci.org/articles/view/144201

Fibromyalgia transferred to mice........

The key finding of this paper found that the transfer of IgG from FM patients to mice resulted in mice displaying several key FM symptoms. The mice displayed increased sensitivity to noxious mechanical and cold stimulation, lower pain threshold in pressure and reduced paw grip strength.

“Transfer of hypersensitivities from patients to mice was reproducible across all tested FMS subjects, strongly suggesting that antibody-dependent processes typically underpin the characteristic tenderness and thermal hypersensitivities experienced by patients.”

 

[Boba]

so below: the virus induced the mito fragmentation and others changes not good. It could be transferred from plasma to other cells.

Here:

Human Herpesvirus-6 Reactivation, Mitochondrial Fragmentation, and the Coordination of Antiviral and Metabolic Phenotypes in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Philipp Schreiner, Thomas Harrer, Carmen Scheibenbogen, Stephanie Lamer, Andreas Schlosser, Robert K. Naviaux and Bhupesh K. Prusty
ImmunoHorizons April 1, 2020, 4 (4) 201-215; DOI: https://doi.org/10.4049/immunohorizons.2000006

https://www.immunohorizons.org/content/4/4/201

Adoptive transfer of serum from 10 patients with ME/CFS produced a similar fragmentation of mitochondria and the associated antiviral state in the A549 cell assay. In conclusion, HHV-6 reactivation in ME/CFS patients activates a multisystem, proinflammatory, cell danger response that protects against certain RNA and DNA virus infections but comes at the cost of mitochondrial fragmentation and severely compromised energy metabolism.

But wouldn’t that mean that fixing Mitos wouldn’t work? I’m just trying to understand this correctly. Feel pretty stupid rn.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Feel pretty stupid rn.

no, your actually thinking.

Possibilities:

1) there is not just one virus or one mitochondrial issue going on...

2) based upon above work on HHV-6......(and Prusty often says other viruses are doing similar things..)

I'd say that the Japanese fix may not work to correct virus-induced loss of mitochondria as described above.



So you might be ....onto...a limitation.

Now who spends $8M without having a major evaluation of: all this related research? Who does that?

(edited to add: so given that we have a hefty team above, who I am generally impressed with, and Cell Danger Response is even included!....what gives?)

 

[Alvin2]

Nice that its being tested but it sounds a lot like a fishing expedition imo.
I hope they catch the fish.

 

[heapsreal]

Telmesartan is ppar drug used for hypertension. I've seen on Bodybuilding forums and many athletes like endurance athletes using it for helping with fatloss and a few other performance ehancing things as well as controlling BP. So Telmesartan might be an option if one wants to trail a ppar drug that's already on the market. I haven't tried telmesartan but I am on candesartan which is an angiotensin receptor blocker(ARB) which Telmesartan is but I don't think candesartan has effects on ppar receptors, in that it's a unique effect of Telmesartan that other ARBs dont necessarily have.

 

[Boba]

Telmesartan is ppar drug used for hypertension. I've seen on Bodybuilding forums and many athletes like endurance athletes using it for helping with fatloss and a few other performance ehancing things as well as controlling BP. So Telmesartan might be an option if one wants to trail a ppar drug that's already on the market. I haven't tried telmesartan but I am on candesartan which is an angiotensin receptor blocker(ARB) which Telmesartan is but I don't think candesartan has effects on ppar receptors, in that it's a unique effect of Telmesartan that other ARBs dont necessarily have.

Not sure what to think. I don’t have high hopes. It’s always the same. Some news come out making me hopeful and after a short time reality kicks in and I’m back to square one. Feeling doomed forever. Sorry about being emotional, just learned that my ex who left me when I became sick is with another person now. Long Covid took everything from me.

 

[heapsreal]

Not sure what to think. I don’t have high hopes. It’s always the same. Some news come out making me hopeful and after a short time reality kicks in and I’m back to square one. Feeling doomed forever. Sorry about being emotional, just learned that my ex who left me when I became sick is with another person now. Long Covid took everything from me.

I can't see it being a cure but it may help someone to a certain degree.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Sorry about being emotional, just learned that my ex who left me when I became sick is with another person now.

.... how difficult and frustrating

understandable having to process all that....

Telmesartan is ppar drug used for hypertension

my husband takes that....its considered a better BP pill by some....I'm unclear what the Telmesartan is about in this context?

Over the last month, my high BP converted to Good BP and I"m not sure what just happened. At the same time, my BP cuff, caught up with its planned obsolescence date....its hardly working, so am I to spend another $80?