International ME/CFS and FM Awareness Day Is On May 12, 2018
Thomas Hennessy, Jr., selected May 12th to be our international awareness day back in 1992. He knew that May 12th had also been the birthday of Florence Nightingale. She was the English army nurse who helped to found the Red Cross as well as the first school of nursing in the world.
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Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Freddd, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    I have been working closely, from the beginning, with some people in the "wired and tired" (Thanks to Dannybex) characteristic. I am seeing some patterns and need some more information. I have reached an hypotheisis that I need to confirm or not as best as possible.

    Also, is anxiety a present? Is it aggravated by the following supplements or others?

    For those with huge response to mb12, adb12, methylfolate, l-carnitine fumarate (or other carnitine) and having done or attempted a titration of any size onto these items.

    Also, if the person has tried any benzos, their responses and also if they had anything like intradose withdrawal or "tolerance withdrawal" problems.

    For anybody willing, please give me your email address in a private message and I will send an excel spreadsheet set up as a lifetime history of symptoms for all the symptoms on the list. I will be basing it on an updated list from what is already posted.

    I believe I have a correct analytical solution and a possible protocol but I need more information to be sure.
  2. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

    I don't suppose you have any ideas about dannybex's B6 troubles? They sound very similar to my B6 troubles.

    I do fall into the extreme wired but tired category, but haven't really followed your protocol -- at least not yet, so this isn't really applicable for me.

    For what it's worth, benzos only give short term relief for me and I have rapid development of tolerance, so I've never used them for long enough to have troubles with them. I just persevere, which is incredibly unpleasant.
  3. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Hi Hixxy,

    I don't suppose you have any ideas about dannybex's B6 troubles? They sound very similar to my B6 troubles.

    I don't. Can you tell me about yours, in detail please.

    For what it's worth, benzos only give short term relief for me and I have rapid development of tolerance, so I've never used them for long enough to have troubles with them. I just persevere, which is incredibly unpleasant.

    Do you mean "tolerance withdrawal" as I have seen it referred to recently? This is exactly what I am chasing down. I believe I know what is going on but I need more information.

    The "wired and tired", rapid development of benzo "tolerance" problems and hyper-responsiveness to some or all of mb12, adb12, l-carnitine fumarate and Metafolin are all characteristics.
  4. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

    What I mean with benzo tolerance is, their effectiveness wears off so rapidly, that in order to maintain effectiveness, the dose creeps up quite quickly too. This is why I don't persist with them.

    I do have minor withdrawals if I take them daily for a week, but I've never allowed myself to take them longer then this.

    The withdrawal are increased agitation, agressision, dizziness, deja vu, depression. It's not too bad, and short lived as I've kept my benzo use to a minimum.
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City

    Hi Hixxy,

    Can you tell me about the b6 troubles please.
  6. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

    I suffer pyroluria. Just over 2 years ago I was put on 200mg / day of b6. Almost immediately I developed sensitivity to bright light and sound and a very severe intolerance of dietary glutamate.

    At this time I already had a more "normal" level of MCS, but my reactions to this sentivities worsened over night.

    Instead of just neverousness, malaise, agitation, depression I'd get with a reaction, I was suddenly having muscle shaking problems and vibration sensations through my body.

    Clearly the b6 put my nervous system even further into overdrive and made my glutamate receptor hyperactivation problems a LOT worse. It was amazing how fast it did it.

    Unfortunately once this was made worse, there was no turning back and any time I take a reasonable dose of b6 now it worsens again.

    These shaking symptoms have gone on to all sorts of neuromuscular problems and these shaking / convulsing fits when having strong MCS / EMF reactions.
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Hi Hixxy,

    Have you ever gone though the list of symptoms on the BASICS thread. Could you go through the list of symptoms and mark all the ones you have, maybe by pasting a colored "yes" after each one you have. That makes it easy to spot. Post that HERE, pleasenot on the BASICS thread. I think you have a lot more possibly going on.
  8. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

    I presume you man Active B12 Protocol Basics thread. Is there a clearly defined symptom list there you want me to work through. Towards the start of the thread I can't see a list as per se. Are you able to provide me a link to the specific post?

    Another thing you may find interesting is extreme intolerance of calcium for similar reasons as B6.
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Hi Hixxy,

    Post #24 I believe.
  10. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

    SYMPTOMS, SIGNS, CHARACTERISTICS OF METHYB12, ADENOSYLB12, METHYLFOLATE and limited cofactors, CNS and body deficiencies
    Version 2.0 01/21/2012

    mouth sensitive to hot and cold YES
    sore burning tongue
    beef-red tongue, possibly smoother than normal YES
    sore mouth, no infection or apparant reason YES
    teeth sensitive to hot and cold
    canker sores
    dry mouth YES
    excessive thirst YES
    burning bladder (no UTI)
    painful urgency (no UTI)
    burning urethra (no UTI)

    burning muscle pain YES
    accumulating muscle pains following exertion YES
    sore muscles throughout body YES
    lack of muscle recovery after exercise YES
    exercise does not build muscle YES
    extremely sore neck muscles reversing normal curvature of neck YES
    exercise deblitates for up to a week, making things much worse
    painfully tight, stiff muscles, especially legs and arms YES
    frequent muscle spasms anywhere in body
    muscle pain especially around attachment points to bones YES
    Eighteen severely tender muscle spots of FMS
    Widespread muscle pain responding to NSAID
    Joint pain
    Pain in weight bearing joints
    morning joint stiffness

    sick stomach
    stomach not emptying YES
    frequent vomiting
    acid regurgitation
    dyspepsia YES
    flatulence YES
    altered bowel habits YES
    abdominal pain YES
    loss of appetite for meat, fish, eggs, dairy, the only b12 contining foods, nutrient specific anorexia
    intermittent constipation YES
    intermittant diarrhea
    irritable bowel syndrome YES
    Crohns disease (direction of causality if any not established)
    Celiac disease (direction of causality if any not established) - gluten sensitivity YES
    Dairy sensitivity - beyond lactose intolerance YES
    sores, ulcers and lesions along entire GI tract or any part YES
    weight loss YES
    weight gain

    reduced libido - loss of sexual desire YES
    loss of orgasmic intensity YES
    unsatisfying orgasms YES
    inability to orgasm
    loss and/or change of genital sensations YES
    burning genital skin sensation
    unable to feel aroused YES
    numb genital skin
    low sex hormones YES

    low testosterone YES
    erectile disfunction
    low sperm count
    poor sperm motility
    Poor sperm quality
    no sperm

    low testosterone
    low estrogen
    post partum depression
    post partum psychosis
    False positive pap smears
    menstrual symptoms
    Frequent miscarriage
    Chronic yeast infections
    onset of menopause - unexpected

    rapid heart rate
    heart arythymias
    shortness of breath YES
    heart palpitations YES
    weak pulse YES
    congestive heart failure

    Widespread pain throughout body
    Hypothyroid (direction of causality if any not established) YES
    Hasimoto's Thyroiditis, affected during active phase, appears to be deficiency result

    High homocysteine
    High urinary MMA

    dizziness - even unable to walk

    Difficulty in word finding YES
    irritable YES
    depression YES
    SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder
    mental slowing
    personality changes YES
    chronic malaise YES
    poor concentration YES
    Difficulty assimilating new information
    Reduced task completion YES
    moodiness YES
    tiredness YES
    mood swings YES
    memory loss
    listlessness YES
    impaired connection to others YES
    mentally fuzzy, foggy, brainfog
    inappropriate anger YES
    rage YES
    psychosis, including many of the most florid psychosis seen in literature, megoblastic madness
    paranoia YES
    hallucinations - multisensory
    anxiety or tension YES
    nervousness YES
    mania YES
    panic attacks
    Hypersensitivity to touch
    Hypersensitivity to odors YES
    Hypersensitivity to tastes YES
    Hypersensitivity to clothing texture YES
    Hypersensitivity to chemicals YES
    Hypersensitivity to body malfunctions, symtoms
    Hypersensitivity to sounds and noises YES
    Hypersensitivity to light and visual stimuli YES
    Hypersensitivity to blood sugar changes YES
    Hypersensitivity to internal metabolic changes YES
    Hypersensitivity to temperature changes YES

    mild to extremely severe fatigue YES
    continuous extremely severe fatigue
    easy fatiguability YES
    severe abnormal muscle fatigue up to and including apparent paralysis leading to death
    weakness YES

    sleep disorders
    non restorative sleep
    lack of dreaming YES
    Night terrors
    Prolonged hypnogogic state transitioning to sleep
    Sleep paralysis

    alteration of touch all over body, normal touch can be unpleasant and painful
    alterations and loss of taste
    taste hallucinations
    smell hallucinations
    sound hallucinations
    visual hallucinations
    metallic taste YES
    alterations and loss of smell
    loss of smell and taste of strawberries specifically
    loss or alteration of smell and taste of potato chips specifically
    roughening and increased raspiness of voice, mb12 can smooth in mid word
    blurring of vision - can be sudden onset and sudden return YES
    dimmed vision - usually not noticed going into it because change can be very slow or present for life
    Visual impairment can be seen; ophthalmological exam may show bilateral visual loss
    optic atophy
    centrocecal scotomata
    hypersensitivity/intolerance to bright light YES
    Slow to adapt to night vision
    Night blindness
    redness of eyes
    Age Related Macular Degneration
    Optic neuritis
    diminished hearing - gradual onset or present for life, sudden return possible
    tinnitus - ringing in ears YES
    always feeling cold
    low body temperature YES
    intolerance to loud sounds YES
    intolerance to multiple sounds YES

    Brainstem or cerebellar signs or even reversible (with mb12) coma may occur
    neural tube defect
    mother of child with neural tube defect
    demyelinated areas on nerves
    subacute combined degeneration
    axonial degeneration of spinal cord
    unsteadiness of gait
    ataxic gait, particularly in dark YES
    positive Romberg YES
    positive Lhermittes

    neuropathies, many types YES
    progressive bilateral neuropathies
    demyelination of nerves - white spots on nerves on MRIs
    loss of detail and sensual aspects of touch all over body
    paresthesias anywhere in body - tingling, pins and needles, etc YES
    paresthesias in one left foot only
    paresthesias in one right foot only
    paresthesias in one left leg only
    paresthesias in one right leg only
    paresthesias in one left hand only
    paresthesias in one right hand only
    paresthesias in one left arm only
    paresthesias in one right arm only
    paresthesias in both feet - cobwebs, hairs etc
    paresthesias in both feet - burning, cold, wet, etc YES
    paresthesias in both feet - tingling,painnful tingling, etc
    paresthesias in both feet - pain - mild to seveere or acute, shallow to deep, etc
    paresthesias in both feet - numbness in skin, etc
    paresthesias in both feet - numbness in muscles, etc
    paresthesias in both legs - cobwebs, hairs etc
    paresthesias in both legs- burning, cold, wet, etc
    paresthesias in both legs - tingling,painnful tingling, etc
    paresthesias in both feet - pain - mild to seveere or acute, shallow to deep, etc
    paresthesias in both legs- numbness in skin, etc
    paresthesias in both legs - numbness in muscles, etc
    paresthesias in both legs - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hair, pain, numbness, etc
    paresthesias in both hands - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hairs, pain, numbness, etc
    paresthesias in both arms - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hairs, pain, numbness, etc
    Loss of position sense is 1 of 2 most common abnormality (or vibration sense)
    Loss of vibration sense is 1 of 2 most common abnormality (or position sense)
    Loss of motor control over some or all of toes
    Loss of motor control over part or all of feet
    Loss of sense of joint position
    hands feel gloved with loss of sensitivity - glove anesthesia
    feet feel socked by loss of sensitivity - stocking anesthesia
    glove and stocking anesthesia
    trembling YES
    neuropathic bladder
    unable to release bladder, mild to severe
    unable to fully empty the bladder
    urinary incontenance - occasionally to frequently
    fecal incontinance - occasionally to frequently
    sudden electric like shocks/pains shooting down arms, body, legs shooting down from neck movement
    sudden "ice pick" pain
    standing with eyes closed, a slight nudge or bump causes loss of balance YES
    most patients have signs of both spinal cord and peripheral nerve involvement

    The effect on reflexes is quite variable
    Motor impairment may range from only mild clumsiness to a spastic paraplegia
    slowed nerve impulses
    decreased reflexes
    difficulty swallowing YES
    brisk reflexes
    decreased deep tendon reflex
    toes turn up instead of down in reflex to sole stimulation
    Positive bilateral Babinski reflex
    Foot Drop
    tripping over toes
    injuring toes catching top of toes on floor
    general feeling of weakness YES

    apathetic YES
    rapid and unpredictable emotional changes YES
    limbs feel stiff YES

    impaired white blood cell response YES
    poor resistance to infections YES
    easy bruising
    pronounced anemia
    macrocytic anemia
    megablastic anemia
    pernicious anemia
    decreased blood clotting
    low hematocrit
    MCV > 93 first warning, YES
    MCV > 97 alert
    MCV > 100 outright macrocytosis
    MCV > 105 urgently needs treatment, severe problem

    elevated MCH (Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin)
    elevated LDH
    big fat red cells (when said this way usually with happy or healthy modifying it completely misinterpreting results of MCV
    platelet disfunction, low count
    white cell changes, low count YES
    hypersegmented neutrophils

    inflamed epithelial tissues - mucous membranes, skin, GI, vaginal, lungs YES
    inflamed endothelial tissues - lining of veins and arteries
    mucous becomes thick, jellied and sticky YES
    chronic cough that mimics asthma but isn't
    chronic sinus congestion
    dermatitis herpetiformis, chronic intensely burning itching rash
    frequent infected follicles or acne type lesions all over body YES
    chronic infections, many varieties possible YES
    Seborrheic dermatitis
    dandruff YES
    skin on face, hands, feet, turns brown or yellow if anemia occurs
    poor hair condition
    thin nails YES
    transverse ridges on nails, can happen as healing starts
    splits/sores at corners of mouth -angular cheilitis
    Hyperhidrosis - excessive sweating

    Bariatric surgery
    Dilantin and some other medications
    Relatives, grandparant, parent, sibling, child, grandchild ever needing b12 shots or supplement
    brain atrophy with ileal tuberculosis preventing b12 absorbtion
    Intestinal parasites YES
    Intestinal bacterial overgrowrth YES
    Low CSF cobalamin
    Elevated CSF MMA
    Elevated CSF Hcy
    Low blood serum level
    Elevated uMMA
    Elevated blood serum Hcy


    delayed myelination
    failure to thrive
    delayed speech
    frequent or continuous toncilitis
    frequent strep YES
    frequent pneumonia
    frequent longlasting supposed viral illnesses that linger and linger and linger
    everything goes to the lungs for extended periods YES
    growing pains
    skin problems
    allergies YES
    continuous swolen glands in neck
    low grade fever for years
    Night terrors
    Prolonged hypnopompic state transitioning from sleep
    Prolonged hypnagogic state transitioning to sleep
    Sleep paralysis

    ME YES
    Sub-acute combined degeneration
    Low Testosterone YES
    Fertility Problems, male and female
    Sleep Disorders
    Neural Tube Defects
    Peripheral Neuropathy YES
    Autonomic neuropathy
    Conversion Disorder
    "TOO many symptoms to be believable"
    Alcoholic - non-drinker or genuine light drinker
    Removed from Practice for knowing to much
    Its All In Your Head - IAIYH
    Removed from practice for insisting that there is REALLY something wrong instead of IAIYH
  11. merylg

    merylg Senior Member

    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Hi Freddd,
    I get "wired tired" any time I try to take any of the forms of B12...a few weeks ago I was re-trying Hydroxy B12 1 drop/day (1,000 mcg) sub-lingual Holistic Health Megadrops...more recently Ad B12 (Dibencozide Source Naturals 1/4 x 10mg/day).

    Methyl B12 (Jarrow 5,000 mcg) just makes me feel totally ill the following morning. Nausea, malaise, thirst, dehydration, metallic taste... (I don't think it's a low potassium reaction. I had my serum potassium level checked a couple of times).

    Methylfolate (Solgar Metafolin 800 mcg) makes me feel totally ill as the same way as Methyl B12 does.

    I have played around with different doses, single supplements, combinations & whole protocols...both the Simplified Methylation Protocol & yours. The trialling of the protocols did appear to help a bit at first, taking me from bed-bound to mostly housebound & able to make short trips out once or twice a week.

    I am now only taking B2 (Riboflavin), Manganese, Magnesium, Fish Oil, B1 (Thiamine), CoQ10...and trying to re-introduce Ad B12 and L-Carnitine Fumarate 500 mg (Jarrow).

    Yesterday I left out the Ad B12 and I think the L-Carnitine Fumarate was what made me "wired tired" ...awake til after 1 am...when up until now I have been calm, relaxed & with good sleep onset on the B2 (Riboflavin).

    I will PM you my email.


  12. merylg

    merylg Senior Member

    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    I have tried Valium in the past on the odd occasion. Found it helpful at the time. Never got addicted to it, but never took it for long. Never noticed any withdrawal or tolerance issues.
  13. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City

    Hi Hixxy,

    Thankyou for the list of symptoms. With more than 100 items there the sitiation is very clear. Basically you have a selction of symptoms for all 4 b12 deficiencies with an emphasis on adb12-CNS deficiency. Most of them could be gone or very reduced in a year. Are there other symptoms not accounted for in that list? What are they?
  14. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

    I'd have to think long and hard about that Fredd, the list was very comprehensive. I'll get back to you.
  15. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

    Sth Australia
    Ive posted on another thread in response to what you've been asking so hopefully you will see that.

    With "wired but tired" I dont nowdays get it often and nowdays it dont last long and anxiety doesnt tend to come in with it.

    In the past when I had wired and tired more and had it far longer, I did have major anxiety issues all the time back then and the wired and tired did probably made my anxiety issues worst.

    Ive never had anxiety worsened by supplements (thou have had some hellish mood issues other then anxiety manifest on some meds).

    Fredd.. do you know what deficiency may cause someone to loose feeling on back of hands but have good feeling everywhere else eg good on the palms etc.? Im currently trying to work out what is going on for me.
  16. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

    Near Cognac, France
    Hi Fredd

    I'm not sure if I'd be any help to you as I haven't followed any of the methylation protocols nor tried benzodiazepines.

    I am interested in what you come up with though.

    I definitely fall into the tired and wired category but have also have had lifelong anxiety issues (greatly exacerbated after ME onset) and a form of OCD which is also linked to anxiety.

    There was a recent thread where someone asked what you would do if you got your life back which reminded me that even without the current physical symptoms I still wouldn't be back to what I'd consider 'normal'.

    I've recently been considering trying Baclofen - a GABA agonist having - heard that it has helped alcoholics to break the addiction. Many, if not most alcoholics drink due to longstanding anxiety and apparently Baclofen not only stopped them enjoying alcohol and lessened any withdrawal symptoms but many also report the disappearance of lifelong anxiety as a welcome 'side effect'.

    A recent Cochrane review reports only one clinical trial that met their quality criteria but it did report success (in treating alcohol withdrawal symptoms) and the review recommended larger scale replication studies.

    I'd be curious if the GABA/glutamate balance plays any part in your thinking and am happy to fill in your spreadsheet if you think it might help.
  17. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Hi Taniaaust1,

    I'm posting the latest on this aspect of wired and tired. As far as lack of feelings on back of hands I can't say with any specificity if that relates to a deficiency. It could and just be were the demyelination lesions are affecting the specific nerves from these combined b12 deficiencies. After you titrate to body saturation with mb12 and adb212, then when you try the 50mg singloe dose trial if it affects your numb areas on your hands you will know.
  18. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City

    As I have been saying there are 4 specific b12 and cofactor deficiencies. I have pinned down one of them that hadnt been identified before as a separate thing.

    This specific pattern, of neurological mitochondria shutdown, has some specific characteristics. There is an extreme hypersensitivity to adenosylb12 and/or l-carnitine fumarate and sometimes methylfolate if the person converts to adb12 well enough. The first one in may have no effect or may be hyper responsive. The second one taken often causes a huge response. So, in one case, l-carnitine fumarate, perhaps 50mg, as first taken, has no effect. A week later after that was out of the system, adenosylb12 was taken and had no effect and was established. After a few day of adenosylb12 the response to < 1mg of l-Carnitine fumarate is out of this world intense. After that an increase in methylb12 is also extreme, but not the nominal 500mcg already established as that is rolled into the l-carnitine response. So we see the dependence of the nerves on adb12-LCF activating the mitochondria in order to have a response to mb12. The specific mix of these responses depends on the person being extremely deficient of all 3 items in the CNS. The person however didnt have the symptoms of stalled methylation that one often sees in the epithelial tissues of the body. Body does not have much in the way of symptoms compared to the neurological and neuro-psyc. It is mostly neurological.

    The mood characteristics show a great deal of anxiety as a base condition. Sudden emotional changes or storms, can look bipolar. Sudden rage, panic attacks etc all are very much worsened by adb12, mb12, LCF once the mutual dependencies are no longer blocking each other. Often risk sports or pseudo risk entertainments, roller coasters, bungee jumping, parachute jumping, fast boats, fast cars, fast anything are too much and too scary. OCD or elements of it may be present. These have to do typically with neural dopamine processing. These symptoms, as well as others including certain neuromuscular, may be present or caused or worsened by benzo usage, especially in those who are experiencing what is commonly called tolerance withdrawal which appears to be more a late or slow onset side effect. There are a lot more characteristics to really pin it down. However, those just clarify how it manifests. Low dopamine symptoms have to appear for Parkinsons to be diagnosed. Recent research has shown that Parkinsons has low CSF cobalamin, elevated CSF MMA and hypothesis that 20 years or more of damage from mal or non functioning neural mitochondria causes Parkinsons and here we have damaged neurons from low adb12-LCF and the beginning of the emotional/personality characteristics often found in Parkinsons (or some forms of Parkinsons) from these damaged neurons. The question comes down to:

    Most of these neuro-psyc symptoms appear to be linked to limbic system damage. The hypothesis is that 20 years or more of neurological damage from non-functioning neuro-mitochondria with low CSF cobalamin and elevated CSF MMA (non-functioning mitochondria by virtue of CSF adenosylb12/l-carnitine-fumarate deficiency as indicated by elevated CSF MMA) which has these symptoms is Parkinsons disease. Furthermore, Parkinsons disease is associated with limbic system damage.

    It is these extreme deficiencies that appear to damage the neurons and causes the extreme hyper responsiveness. A micro titration of mb12, adb12 and l-carnitine fumarate can build the levels up, eventually to levels that according to the Japanese studies, up-regulates neurological healing. As the damaged neurons are reactivated they are extremely irritable and there is an increase in symptoms. Tapering the benzos may be helpful for turning down the secondary low dopamine symptoms. The benzos can cause a change in the dopamine receptors which appears to cause these Parkinsons type symptoms when a person has the adb12/carnitine deficiency damaged neurons.
    This one subgroup, with hypersensitivity to at least adenosylb12 and/or l
    carnitine fumarate and possibly mb12, with lots of anxiety, possibly with emotional outbursts, possible instant rage or killing rage, OCD or OCD like, doesn't get a thrill from thrilling activities, fear instead. Then adb12, mb12 or l-carnitine fumarate can, in tiny quantities trigger any or all in succession of the emotional responses. Also, benzos are frequently prescribed for the deficiency symptoms, and when the dose is large enough, it has an effect on the dopamine receptors causing the above emotional responses which are mostly part of the "Parkinson's personality" and in benzo-board lingo is "tolerance withdrawal" rather than "late onset side effects". Tolerance withdrawal is a far scarier term than "side effects". This deficiency appears to damage the limbic system. Then, when the neurons that are now hypersensitive are exposed to anything that starts them producing ATP and transmitting signals they have painfully intense responses, just as different damage can produce intense pain or bodywide pain sensitivity. When looking up the limbic system the disease mentioned that is at least in part caused by damage to the limbic system specifically is Parkinson's.

    It appears that the damage appears to keep increasing for years and years until it becomes PARKINSONS, ALS, MS, SUPRA NUCLEAR PALSY and ALZHEIMERS, probably depending upon the exact mix of deficiencies, the exact neurological areas damaged or other factors. Until methylb12, adenosylb12 and l-carnitine fumarate are all brought up to the level that prevents further damage and then to a level that can heal the damage if possible, it is likely that the damage just keeps on going.

    This specific aspect is not a methylation problem but that may also be a cofactor. This can be limited to the brain and cord with little or no body involvement. Hydroxycbl does not replace the adnenosylb12 but some people can convert the methylb12 to adenosylb12 to some extent. Further the double or triple deficiency with the l-carnitine fumarate and mb12 assures that no single substance can repair this. It HAS to be a complicated (many substances) protocol with careful titration.

    If a person is going to heal from this, assuming that is even possible, its only going to happen with the Active B12 Protocol. That a person can take hydroxcbl for years and it never touches it should be ample demonstration that it doesnt work as it is easily demonstrated that adb12, mb12 and l-carnitine fumarate plus cofactors starts working in minutes to hours. The extreme response demonstrates the extreme deficiency and resulting damage.

    A few people taking this from the b12 deficiency end of things who performed some of the titrations of adb12 of injections from 1 to 25mg or so and various ratios of adb12:mb12 discovered this increase in irritability. This irritability is at the heart of the Mr. Hyde transformation in b12 deficiency (mb12 fades first and fastest) and an overbalance of adb12 to mb12 which occasionally shows up when adb12 injections are in the 10-25mg range. Is this an early Parkinsons indicator? With only 2 people doing this series and only 1 person experiencing the mood/personality change, and others having exactly the opposite effect with high oral doses of both adb12 and LCF.

    Im still working out the details. I will have a micro-titration set of instructions posted shortly. And of course everybody is free to choose whatever hypothesis they want to work from.

    Choosing a strategy

    1 Avoiding everything that attempts to restore the neurons and mitochondria to a non-deficient state as that is too irritating and anxiety provoking. Unfortunately that appears unlikely to change the course of the disease progression.
    2 Rapid titration of the obviously active and effective substances to limit the number of days that have to be endured until the neuron startup effects are over. This will allow the doses to climb towards those needed to allow the body to restore the nervous system to normality (hopefully) with the up-regulated neurological healing the Japanese research speaks of. The accepted therapy doses of l-carnitine for restoration from technical deficiency is 3,000mg IV. A daily oral dose of l-carnitine in the 1000mg range is a quite normal supplement dose. Higher doses restores normality quicker or so goes the theories and actual results with all the items shown to have dose related effects produces more rapid and/or complete healing. LOTS OF UNKNOWNS.
    3 Slow titration of all the active and effective substances bringing them all into balance at each level before increasing to the next step. It may take a year to get the levels up to the usually effective healing levels which may or may not slow down healing. By slow titration the length of onset may be an entire year or more. Feathering it to get things increasing enough to give some adaptation, healing and recovery of function without making it intolerable is not always possible to do when the difference between tolerable results and intolerable may come down to a difference of 10mcg of LCF. LOTS OF UNKNOWNS,


    1 Can the damage be reversed
    2 How many years of damage can be reversed
    3 Can damage be stopped from proceeding all the way to Parkinsons (MS, ALS, Alzheimers, SNP etc)
    4 How to reverse the damage and prevent it from continuing.

    Step right up and place your bets ladies and gentlemen, who is going to get sicker and who is going to heal? For that matter who can heal? Who hasnt yet crossed the line of no return into outright irreversible neurological disease. My experience with Subacute Combined Degeneration is that it can be partially reversed and many of the symptoms alleviated and progression very much slowed down. So in SACD some of the demyelization lesions do heal, just as they can in MS. As the limbic system becomes hyper irritable it seems reasonable to expect the same kind of lesions there and to expect them to heal in the same way requiring the same cofactors. We are all in the same boat much more so than many think. We just each are sitting by a different set of leaks.

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