Which supplement has done the most for you?

[Gondwanaland]

The supplement that made the biggest direct impact was MMS.

MMS? MSM?

Does anyone have any suggestions at all as to what length of time you give a supplement to work, before you abandon it?

If there is no worsening, 2 weeks ?

 

[pamojja]

Does anyone have any suggestions at all as to what length of time you give a supplement to work, before you abandon it?

Depends on so many factors. The main nutrients which are deficient in a large part of the population one wouldn't even feel anything:

How Much is Too Much? : Appendix B: Vitamin and Mineral Deficiencies in the U.S.

Nutrient from food alone, ranked by the occurrence of dietary inadequacy among adults | Percentage of dietary intakes below the estimated average requirement for a specific population* | Naturally occurring sources of nutrient**

2-to-8-year-old children | 14-to-18-year-old girls | Adults 19 and older

Vitamin D | 81% | 98% | 95% | Fatty fish, mushrooms [vitamin D is naturally formed in the body when skin is exposed to sunlight; vitamin D is added to fortified milk]

Vitamin E | 65% | 99% | 94% | Nuts, seeds, vegetable oils, green leafy vegetables

Magnesium | 2% | 90% | 61% | Whole grains, wheat bran and wheat germ, green leafy vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds

Vitamin A | 6% | 57% | 51% | Preformed vitamin A: liver, fatty fish, milk, eggs; provitamin A carotenoids: carrots, pumpkins, tomatoes, leafy green vegetables

Calcium | 23% | 81% | 49% | Milk, yogurt, cheese, kale, broccoli

Vitamin C | 2% | 45% | 43% | All fruits and vegetables, particularly citrus fruits and tomatoes

Vitamin B6 | 0.1% | 18% | 15% | Many foods; highest levels in fish, beef, poultry, potatoes and other starchy vegetables, and fruit other than citrus

Folate | 0.2% | 19% | 13% | Many foods; highest levels in spinach, liver, asparagus, Brussels sprouts [mandatory, standardized addition to enriched flour and flour products]

Zinc | 0.2% | 24% | 12% | Red meat, poultry, beans, nuts, some seafood, whole grains

Iron | 0.7% | 12% | 8% | Highest amounts in meat and seafood; lower levels in nuts and beans [mandatory, standardized addition to enriched flour and flour products]

Thiamin | 0.1% | 10% | 7% | Whole grain products [mandatory, standardized addition to enriched flour and flour products]

Copper | 0% | 16% | 5% | Shellfish, whole grains, beans, nuts, potatoes, organ meats (kidneys, liver)

Vitamin B12 | 0% | 7% | 4% | Animal products: fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk

Riboflavin | 0% | 5% | 2% | Milk and dairy products, eggs, meat, green leafy vegetables, legumes [mandatory, standardized addition to enriched flour and flour products]

Niacin | 0.1% | 4% | 2% | Meat, fish, seeds and nuts, whole grains [mandatory, standardized addition to enriched flour and flour products]

Selenium | 0% | 2% | 1% | Found in different plant and animal foods; highest levels in seafood and organ meats (kidneys, liver)

Subclinical deficiencies rarely give symptoms for a long, long time. Once they do, one has been for a long time building up deficiency, and with low doses would take many years to correct.

Then there are pharmacological applications of that same nutrients at mega-doses which might help to get into remission even with otherwise non-reversible chronic diseases. Since this chronic diseases developed most often over decades, also here it would take years for significant remissions.

However, there are other ways to ascertain the supplements work you take, by monitoring extensive lab-works for example.

That's what I did, and had a remission from a 60% walking-disability from PAD after 6 years.


Also there isn't only the question of if a supplement works after some time, but more crucial: at what dose?

The best strategy I found is to experiment always starting with the lowest possible dose for the first weeks, then gradually increase over months and years. We all have different bio-chemical individuality, with different pre-conditions, toxicity exposures, life-styles, etc. Where it would be too simple to assume one dose would work for everyone equally. What might be too little for me, might be to much for you, or even seriously poisoning. Therefore one has to experiment on oneself with a long breath to find the optimal doses for oneself. Which by the way, changes all the time in my experience.

And lastly, there is synergy with many different nutrients and herbs. So in combination much less of one particular might be needed. Or with pharmacological application of single high dose nurtrients, it has to be balanced by raising other nutrients utilized by the same metabolic pathways. That can get so very complex, that lacking a fortune-teller, one has to rely to some extent on intuition and very good observation and reasoning.

Science is of very little help here. Because they only test one nutrient or phytochemical in isolation. Something completely unrealistic or even ever advisable to do. Always try to get as much nutrients and phytochemicals by eating a very diverse diet.

 

[S-VV]

MMS? MSM?

MMS. Short for Master Mineral Solution. aka chlorine dioxide. Lots of hit pieces on it, but I can confirm it worked beautifully against morgellons, a dermal manifestation of Lyme.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5072536/

Like any oxidative therapy, dosing low and slow, frequent breaks and strong mitochondrial support are a must.

 

[Carl]

Tu Si Zi (Dodder Seed) - I would not be without this because it treats the HPA axis better than anything else.

High dose B12 methylcobalamin helped a lot. It did also help restore a more normal body clock with a more normal sleep/wake cycle. However taking such high doses ie 20mg+/day does cause imbalances. I have since substantially lowered the dose to around 1mg/day.

High-dose administration of Vitamin B12 has been additionally validated to stimulate the activity of the body's TH1 suppressor T-Cells, which then down-regulates the over-production of the allergen antibody IgE in allergic individuals.

I have recently altered my selenium supplementation adding methylselenocysteine and less selenomethionine which was my previous only supplemented form. This has helped my body clock as much as the high dose B12 did. I did not realise at first until I read the article on the life extension site which mentions that it can alter the circadian rhythm . It did seem to alter my circadian rhythm gradually because I have been taking the new selenium for a couple of months.

Chemopreventive Doses of Methylselenocysteine Alter Circadian Rhythm in Rat Mammary Tissue
http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2012/ss/selenium-protect-against-cancer/page-01

Perhaps most intriguingly, selenium-methyl L-selenocysteine supplements restore proteins associated with normal circadian (24-hour) rhythms. Disruptions in circadian rhythms are associated with development of several cancer types, most notably breast cancers. Restoring those important regulatory proteins with selenium-methyl L-selenocysteine normalizes levels of melatonin and estrogen receptors related to the aggressiveness of breast cancers.

 

[pamojja]

Tu Si Zi (Dodder Seed) - I would not be without this because it treats the HPA axis better than anything else.

Do you maybe know of a good source for Dodder Seed? Thanks.

 

[Carl]

Do you maybe know of a good source for Dodder Seed? Thanks.

I have mentioned Tu Si Zi before on this forum. There was a thread that I posted to with a review of research on it which would be worth you having a look at. If you search for my posts and find the thread it should help.
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...help-with-physical-fatigue.60610/#post-987185

The prices for Tu Si Zi have risen in recent months, maybe the exchange rates have affected this. I purchased 12 packs of it in February at £8.50 for 500g. That price has close to doubled since that time. For a long time I was paying about £6.50. It is now £15.70.

They do also sell an extract powder but I never found that as effective. The oil component is what I believe tones the nervous system in the kidneys and liver and that might not be present in the extract.

https://healthylicious.co.uk/catalogsearch/result?q=dodder+seed
https://www.herbganic.co.uk/catalogsearch/result?q=dodder+seed
These sites are both owned by the same company but there was a lower price on the herbganic site when I last ordered. Tu Si Zi can also be ordered from eBay/Amazon but the prices are higher.

These sites do say that they use Royal Mail for delivery which they did about 12 months or so back but more recently they have started using other delivery companies so the information on delivery is not 100% accurate re: weight etc. However for international delivery they might still use Parcelforce/Royal Mail.

 

[nsdn]

Inosine. It has made me feel much better. I highly recommend it, felt much much better on it. it’s affordable, and you’ve got nothing to lose.

I improved 1-2 points on Inosine. People have different bioavailabilitys.

What protocol exactly? I'll prove Inosine Pranobex!

 

[Insomniac]

Omega 3 Flaxseed oil. Prefer capsules to liquid because capsules keep fresh better.
Vitamin C


Raw camel milk greatly improved my bowel symptoms for 6 weeks then stopped working.

 

[Insomniac]

Tu Si Zi (Dodder Seed) - I would not be without this because it treats the HPA axis better than anything else.

High dose B12 methylcobalamin helped a lot. It did also help restore a more normal body clock with a more normal sleep/wake cycle. However taking such high doses ie 20mg+/day does cause imbalances. I have since substantially lowered the dose to around 1mg/day.



I have recently altered my selenium supplementation adding methylselenocysteine and less selenomethionine which was my previous only supplemented form. This has helped my body clock as much as the high dose B12 did. I did not realise at first until I read the article on the life extension site which mentions that it can alter the circadian rhythm . It did seem to alter my circadian rhythm gradually because I have been taking the new selenium for a couple of months.

Chemopreventive Doses of Methylselenocysteine Alter Circadian Rhythm in Rat Mammary Tissue
http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2012/ss/selenium-protect-against-cancer/page-01

Where do you buy the Methylselenocysteine and what brand do you use? How much do you take?
have problems with my body clock too and would be interested in trying this.

 

[Carl]

I decided to stop taking the selenium and I have replaced it with the previous version. Sleeping is overrated IMO. So far, after just over 4 days since stopping it I am still sleeping, something that I have done far too much of. 4 days isn't long so maybe the effect will wear off but so far I am not sure that it is doing what I said.

The one I purchased is Swanson SeMSC 120 capsules with 200mcg Selenium per cap. I was taking 2 per day with additional 2x100mcg selenomethionine a day. I have replaced just the methylselonocysteine with 2x100mcg selenomethione twice daily.

I am not sure that it works, time will tell.

 

[maybe some day]

Zero..Nothing ever worked for me

 

[Wishful]

Sad. Experimenting is frustrating because you never know if you just needed to take it a bit longer, or a bit higher dosage, or maybe the bottle that was right next to the one you bought. Of the supplements and treatments that I took because I thought they might work, from theory or other's claims, only four (prednisone, LDN, l-carnitine, apigenin) worked, and those only temporarily. The ones that still work reliably for me (T2 or iodine, and cumin) were accidental discoveries. I haven't bothered to try any more 'they might work' treatments in years.

 

[Murph]

Hydrolysed Whey protein isolate. Recommended to me by Dr Lewis in Melbourne, this stuff has made me much better, I believe.

If, as is hypothesised, there is a block in glucose processing, the body can use amino acids in lieu. I now play tennis twice a week, up from being barely able to walk round the block and I attribute the change to havign ***huge*** volumes of this stuff every day. (I'm male, recall also the fluge and mella study that found men were breaking down their own muscles to provide energy substrates. I've added susbtantial muscle since starting to take this.)

It is basically just a processed food, so the risk of side effects is pretty minimal, and it is widely available.( i can't drink milk but this has no casein so it doesn't upset my stomach.) On an upside vs downside basis it seems like a pretty good risk to me.

Iron seems to be important too.

I also take a shitload of other things that I'm nervous about discontinuing since I seem to have made so much progress.

 

[iicybershotii]

B2 helped me sleep the whole night again - I have to pulse it otherwise I have no histamine in the morning to get out of bed

Hi there. Which form of B2 are you taking the 2mg of? And also, what do you mean by you have no histmaine to get out of bed in the morning? Thanks!

Hydrolysed Whey protein isolate. Recommended to me by Dr Lewis in Melbourne, this stuff has made me much better, I believe.

Which brand do you use specifically? Thanks!

 

[Murph]

Hi there. Which form of B2 are you taking the 2mg of? And also, what do you mean by you have no histmaine to get out of bed in the morning? Thanks!



Which brand do you use specifically? Thanks!

dymatize iso 100 in the gourmet chocolate flavour. i buy from iherb. it's not cheap, unfortunately, but for me very much worth it.

 

[Thinktank]

dymatize iso 100 in the gourmet chocolate flavour. i buy from iherb. it's not cheap, unfortunately, but for me very much worth it.

I recommend the one from bluebonnet nutrition, whey isolate with high IgG count and an excellent amino acid profile. It also contains added BCAA.
I'm intolerant to milk proteins but i ocassionaly use this stuff when i need a boost. It's the best whey i have ever tried (and i have tried many when i was still into weight lifting).
No GI problems with this stuff! This is the only whey that does not make my stool stick to the toilet.
No nasty sucralose or additives.

https://nl.iherb.com/pr/Bluebonnet-...te-Natural-Original-Flavor-2-2-lbs-992-g/9476

 

[Gondwanaland]

Hi there. Which form of B2 are you taking the 2mg of? And also, what do you mean by you have no histmaine to get out of bed in the morning? Thanks!

Just ordinary riboflavin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine#Sleep-wake_regulation

Which brand do you use specifically? Thanks!

Regarding whey powder, I agree with @Thinktank 's recommendation (chocolate and vanilla are delicious and caused me no bad reactions). While I do not tolerate hydrolyzed powders (excess glutamate), isolated whey really boosts glutathione. Unfortunately dairy products cause me hyperinsulinemia and constipation (all are rich in glutamate anyway, and you need selenium, glycine and cysteine to form glutathione).

 

[iicybershotii]

Just ordinary riboflavin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine#Sleep-wake_regulation

Does this mean Vitamin B2 effects histamine?

 

[overtheedge]

@Murph I've also had really good effects from whey protein isolate, not hydrolyzed though, probly not as powerful as the effects your having but considerable. Unfortunately it stopped working after several months of use, however, other powdered nutrients continued to work for me, pea protein, ration tablets which become powder when chewed, hydrolyzed collagen though collagen may work more because of the high glycine levels which test results have showed I need. I used to use several forms of whey protein isolate, bulk supplements/pure protein/one or two other, all of which worked at first and none of which worked after a point, maybe whey protein's all have similar amino acid profiles and by taking it every day and not the other types of powdered nutrients I replenished certain amino acids while not doing so for others and so there was nothing left for it to do, dunno. I should mention that I haven't used whey protein or any other kind of nutrient powder in over a year so things may have reset with time and whey might work for me again if I tried it, will be a while till I can though. Well, haven't tried any of these in over a year with the exception of hydrolyzed collagen which does make me feel good every time I use it and helps me get back to sleep

Also, I was taking 60-80g's of whey protein at one point and I put on 20-30 pounds in a month or two. reduced it to 20-40g's per day after that and I stopped gaining weight, though, the weight remained for around a year until I got on the extremely limited SCD diet for a while which slowly brought my weight back down to where it is now. Also, I remember posting about my dose of whey on another medical health forum and one of the responses I got back warned me that the 60-80g's whey per day may be a bit much for my kidneys and liver to process, don't know if there is anything to that and what consequences could occur but you may want to look into it if you plan to use high doses of whey long term. I'm pretty sure processing of protein in the liver has to do with nitrogen, ammonia, and urea and there are test results to measure these levels, in addition to running standard kidney and liver tests. I just looked over my genova diagnostics plasma amino acid analysis test and see that ammonia and urea as well as two other markers of the urea cycle are tracked on that test along with all the typical amino acids

I wonder if the whey protein working for you could have something to do how easy to digest powder is and how many PWMEs have poor digestion for one reason or another.

If the glutathione is responsible you may get more from taking glutathione supplements

About the whey protein, I've heard that certain types of whey protein may do more than others:

From the book Disease Prevention and Treatment
whey protein concentrate: a study involving HIV-positive men fed whey protein concentrate found dramatic increases in glutathione levels, with most men reaching their ideal body weight. It should be noted that not all whey protein concentrates are created equal. Processing whey protein to remove the lactose and fats, but without losing its biological activity, takes special care by the manufacturer. The protein must be processed under low temperature and low acid conditions so as not to denature it. Maintaining the natural state of the protein is essential to its biological activity. Whey protein has the highest biological value rating of any protein. When the biological value is high, that means protein is absorbed, used, and retained better in the body.

biologically active whey protein: 30 – 60 g daily


this is from Dr. Mercola, I don't buy into a lot of what Dr. Mercola says but kept this among my notes to look into if I decide to try any more whey proteins:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...rease-glutathione-instead-of-supplements.aspx

The overall top food for maximizing your glutathione is high quality whey protein. It must be cold pressed whey protein derived from grass fed cows, and free of hormones, chemicals and sugar.
Quality whey providesall the key amino acids for glutathione production (cysteine, glycine and glutamate) and contains a unique cysteine residue (glutamylcysteine) that is highly bioactive in its affinity for converting to glutathione.

Be sure your whey protein supplement has the following features:

1. The whey comes from grass-fed cows that are not treated with pesticides or hormones
2. Cold processed, since heat destroys whey’s fragile molecular structure
3. Whey protein concentrate, not protein isolates
4. Sweetened naturally, not artificially, and low in carbohydrates
5. Highly digestible—look for medium chain fatty acids (MCTs), not long chain fatty acids

 

[Gondwanaland]

Does this mean Vitamin B2 effects histamine?

As far as I remember, Histamine is broken down by DAO enzyme - co-factors are B6 and Copper, and B6 is activated by B2. B2 is also needed to make glutathione.