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Sleep difficulty - Simplified Methylation Protocol

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Searching, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. Searching


    Hoping someone might be able to weigh in.

    I'm on day 79 of the simplified methylation protocol.

    I'm exhausted. Like hitting a wall of 'can't handle not sleeping anymore'. I've been sleeping 12 to 16 hours a day, but feeling like I haven't. This has been going on for exactly 79 nights.

    Now, I know unrefreshing sleep is a big part of ME/CFS, but this problem is beyond anything I've ever felt, and it started the very night I started the SMP. Constantly dreaming. Constantly.

    I'm still trying to push through, but I'm about a week or so away from jumping ship and getting off the SMP.

    I don't want to, though! Can anyone tell me what to tweak? I'm so sick of soldiering on with this. I was sick of it after the first three weeks. I'm just stubbornly holding on to the hope that if I push through, somehow, something will improve.

    I'm doing Rich's latest plan exactly, am up to 2 and 3/4 tab of the Gen. Neuro. Health. Formula (Yes, I started this at 1/4 tab and have been having the intense dreaming/bad sleeping since the first day). Am also taking Methionine as per Rich's interpretation of my results. My family is sick of hearing me whine about how much I miss Rich.

    Anyone? Please?
  2. caledonia


    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    I don't have a real high tolerance for stuff like that, so if it was me, I would take a break and let the sympoms clear out. Then restart at a much smaller dose and see if you can tolerate that. Maybe take a break for the holidays so you can enjoy them.

    I'm not sure if the unrefreshing sleep would be a sign of a excitoxicity or detox on the protocol, or if there is some nutrient deficiency which has been unmasked.

    Hopefully somebody else more knowledgeable will reply.

    Have you seen any benefits from the protocol? Do you have anxiety or other excitoxicity type stuff during the daytime?
  3. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

    I'm not more knowledgeable but it's clear you are suffering -- I would support backing off and taking things more slowly.

    The constant dreaming reminds me of when I take more 5-HTP than I need to, dreaming right away, still dreaming when I wake up. Twelve to 16 hrs a day of sleep will be hard on brain chemistry and could be related to a lot of dreaming.

    I wouldn't see it as "jumping ship" but rather as pausing to get a better footing for the long haul. Only you can know how much you can handle and I think it helps to feel some level of control over your situation to get through this stuff and manage day to day. With B-12, when I was forced to reduce it, my mood tanked horribly, but that passes and you just have to bear with it.

    I did Fredd's protocol and tried and tried but had to back off and take it incredibly slowly. I felt like a failure at the time, but in the end, that worked for me, so it was what I needed to do.
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  4. Searching


    Thanks so much for your replies, Caledonia and Victronix.

    I'm not sure I have seen any benefits from the protocol, unfortunately. I may have some neurological symptom improvements, as well as a bit more concentration. I'm unsure. I don't have much excitoxicity, if any.

    Should I have seen some kind of improvement by now on Rich's protocol? (80 days in.)

    I'm thinking maybe I should test for more things like Rich suggested.

    Any suggestions on what would help out of these? Which is/are my best bet(s)?

    Metametrix ION panel with 40 amino acids
    Genova Diagnostics NutrEval panel
    Diagnos-techs Expanded G.I. Health profile
    The Metametrix G.I. Function profile

    My problem is, however, when I get the results, what do I do with them? Can I kind of interpret them myself?

    I have an appointment with a registered dietitian in 3 to 4 weeks. I need to figure out what to ask for in terms of testing. If I can find a Canadian equivalent to any of these tests, they will likely be entirely covered by my health insurance.

    Also, my most difficult symptoms are POTS/OH/OI cardiac related. I'm sick of my PB dropping and my heart rate being in the 160s-190s standing. Because of this, I'm considering supplementing with Myhill's cardiac cocktail. (The coQ10, L-carnatine, Magnesium, etc.) Can I combine the 5 Myhill supplements with Rich's protocol; and can I get away with not testing (re: Myhill)? I did the methylation panel before starting Rich's.

    Sorry about the ramble, I'm not great at organizing my thoughts lately. Any and all comments are greatly appreciated.
  5. Red04

    Red04 Senior Member

    Have you thought about switching to Freddd's protocol? If sleep is your main issue, most negatives against Freddd's are related to "overdoing" it and toxins. Of course, start slow and titrate. Rich's protocol has folic acid and hydroxyb12. If my wife takes a multi with folic acid, it's a significant crash. Rich tried to "simplify" the protocol with a multi for affordability and treatability. You might investigate "complicating" it and eliminate folic acid and use the two b12's (mb12 and adb12). More General Nuero Tabs could be hindering you. There are several indicators about folic acid blocking methylfolate:

    1. http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm

    "With respect to this biochemical step, folic acid will actually be toxic to me, as it will crowd out the sparse methyl-folate present in my diet."

    2. http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/folic_acid_dangers_and_prenatal_vitamins.aspx

    3. http://www.methyl-life.com/a-doctor-explains.html
  6. alwayshopeful


    I think this is one time when you should follow the medical mantra of "first do no harm". Think your body is trying to tell you something. I agree with the previous replies and would stop the protocol for awhile and let your body regulate itself. Just my two cents

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