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Result of heavy analysis

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by men100, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. men100

    men100

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    First, apologize for my English (I'm from Spain).

    Today the doctor has finally looked at the analysis of heavy metals in the hair follicle (it is not the same as in hair) and I have 4 tall metals (this test was sent to me by Ceacero). It says (the doctor) that it can be the cause or at least one of them of my POTS or SFC. You are going to give me a treatment to eliminate them. What is your opinion? Does having those 4 metals with those levels be enough to cause so much damage ?:

    The elevated metals are, in this order with respect to the photo, the following:

    Arsenic
    Barium
    Nickel
    Lead

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    I'm no expert, but it seems like your levels are only slightly elevated. Barium doesn't bioaccumulate, so if it was from a recent x-ray, it should clear out on its own. It's possible that these levels could cause symptoms in people who are for some reason exceptionally sensitive to them, but my guess is that they wouldn't cause noticeable symptoms for most people, and most people wouldn't notice a difference if they were reduced by treatments. People who make money on metal removal treatments would argue otherwise, of course.

    I'm not sure what the numbers are supposed to represent, or how they compare with what the scientific community would consider safe levels. The 'mg%' measurement for follicles might have been selected to make normal amounts of metals appear frightening, therefore convincing people that they need expensive treatments.

    If those were my readings, I wouldn't be concerned.
     
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  3. men100

    men100

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    I want to think that the analyzes are validated and it is scientifically proven that these levels can be harmful. If not, it would not make sense that they were for sale, there has to be a control.

    I did not have any recent x-rays. The rest of metals I do not know where I can have absorbed them, nor if I keep doing it. Where I live is a region with a lot of pollution, although I do not leave the house a lot because of the disease. Is it dangerous to remove metals? I do not know to what extent it may be causing my symptoms. What is clear is that if I do not do something, I will not be cured.
     
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  4. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    There should be regulations controlling such things, but often there isn't, or the regulators have been influenced to not apply proper regulations. There are a lot of private medical services that aren't properly regulated. There are even more 'alternative medicine' services that are even less regulated. They often have careful wording to avoid legal problems. There's a lot of money to be made from useless medical treatments.

    Metal chelation treatments can be dangerous. Several members on this forum have reported that they made their ME/CFS worse by such treatments. Others have reported benefits, but I don't think anyone reported that metal chelation cured their ME/CFS.

    There is at present no reliable cure for ME/CFS. There aren't any reliable treatments that work for a significant number of victims. Some of us have found treatments that reduce our symptoms to some extent. I've found two that work reliably for me, but no one else has reported them being useful for them. This forum is filled with people's reports on what they've tried and what they feel has worked or hasn't worked for them.

    There are lots of potential treatments you can try, and even things you discover accidentally. Unless you have unlimited resources, you should try the cheaper/safer possibilities first. If you really want to try heavy metal chelation, go ahead, but if it's an expensive treatment and the practitioner is telling you that it will cure you, you should ask for a money-back guarantee. If he doesn't have enough faith in its success to offer a guarantee, you shouldn't either.

    It's not impossible that metal chelation will make you feel a bit better, at least temporarily. My opinion is that it's unlikely to reduce ME/CFS symptoms. If you're living in a place that is giving you excess heavy metals, you could consider moving elsewhere, filtering your water, changing your food source, or otherwise reducing heavy metal intake. Since your readings are only slightly above what is considered safe, it shouldn't take long for them to drop into the normal range again.

    I'm still suspicious of the standards they're comparing your readings to. Is the breakpoint what is considered safe for humans, or just the average reading, or something else? You should ask your doctor, or at least the doctor's assistant, for more information before you commit more money. The use of a breakpoint (good/bad, and marked green/red) rather that comparison to average makes me think it's intended to sell an expensive treatment, rather than just information for the patient.
     
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  5. men100

    men100

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    The range of heavy metals starts at 0, so I imagine that the less heavy metals accumulated, the better. It is possible that high levels (although not much, less the arsenic that is doubled), are not helping the cell to work well and have blockages. I'm not a doctor, but that's what I understood.

    The doctor's treatment consists of vitamins, nutrients and a fungus. They seem quite natural things, I imagine that other methods are dangerous. According to the doctor, in principle this method should not be. I do not know if in the USA you have these medicines, but I'll give them to you just in case:

    CN Base:
    • Retinol acetate (vit A) 340 μg retinol
    • Colecalciferol (vit D3) 7.5 μg
    • Succinate of D-alpha-tocopheryl (vit E) 10 mg of alpha-tocopherol
    • Calcium ascorbate (vit C) 150 mg of vitamin C
    • Thiamine hydrochloride (vit B1) 4.2 mg.
    • Riboflavin-5-phosphate (vit B2) 4.8 mg.
    • Niacinamide or Nicotinamide (vit B3) 7 mg.
    • D-calcium pantothenate (vit B5) 4 mg
    • Pyridoxal 5 phosphate (vit B6) 6 mg
    • Biotin (vit B7) 75 μg
    • Calcium L-Methylfolate (vit B9) 150 μg of folate
    • Methylcobalamin (vit B12) 3 μg
    • Calcium citrate 25 mg calcium
    • Total calcium 37 mg
    • Magnesium Citrate 37.5 mg of magnesium
    • Zinc citrate 5 mg zinc
    • Copper citrate 0.50 mg copper
    • Manganese Citrate 0.80 mg manganese
    • Molybdate sodium 15 μg molybdenum
    • Selenite sodium 50 μg selenium
    • Chromium picolinate 65 μg chrome
    • R-lipoic acid 50 mg
    • Coenzyme Q10 fermented 50 mg
    • Natural additives: silicon dioxide and microcrystalline cellulose.

    CN-3:
    • Thiamine hydrochloride: 4 mg of vitamin B1.
    • Riboflavin-5-phosphate: 4 mg of the active coenzyme form of vitamin B2.
    • NADH: 3 mg of the active coenzyme form of vitamin B3.
    • Pyridoxal-5-phosphate: 6 mg of the active coenzyme form of vitamin B6.
    • Cyanocobalamin: 3 μg of vitamin B12.
    • L-carnitine tartrate: 230 mg of L-carnitine.
    • Taurine: 200 mg

    Mico Polypor (Polyporus HDT)
    Mico Polypor (Polyporus HDT) is a natural supplement especially indicated to help in cases of fluid retention and improve the respiratory and urinary system.

    It has immune-stimulating properties, such as antibiotic, anti-inflammatory, and as a protector of the liver (it has excellent results working on hepatitis B), likewise it is a great diuretic.
    Studies in China show that this fungus is particularly effective in aiding the immune system, to help counteract the consequences of chemotherapy and radiation therapy.
    It also has properties to help in the treatment of hepatitis B.
    It is basically composed of BetaGlucanos.
    It is an antitumor and is a potent natural antibiotic.
    These species are well known in traditional Chinese medicine is known to have diuretic properties and is positive in the case of problems with the urinary tract.
    This species is formed under the soil, that makes it rich in minerals and organic components that effectively prevent the problems caused by excess pollution.

    Indicated in the following cases:
    -Fluid retention.
    -Edemas.
    - Diastolic hypertension.
    -Leukemia.
    -Lymphoma.
    -Multiple myeloma.
    Lymphatic metastasis.


    Regarding where I live; Yes, the area is very polluted (and where I lived before, more). There is a steel industry among others. What happens when I change my area of residence I do not know if it will be possible ...

    Thank you
     
  6. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    I'm really don't know much about heavy metal treatments, but the treatment you posted sounds like it was created by a supplement marketer rather than a biochemist. You don't feel well? Here's a bunch of supplements that sound really healthy. The claim for the fungus definitely sounds like a wild marketing claim rather than scientific evidence.

    My wild guess is that it's unlikely to hurt, but also unlikely to help. If you're really worried about heavy metals, I think you'd be better off minimizing your intake. Your local government might be able to tell you about contaminants in the water supply, and elsewhere in your local environment. Someone should know what contaminants exist in your local environment.

    I had a blood test done by a toxicologist (paid by the government). It showed normal levels, with slightly elevated selenium and manganese, which he said were reasonable with my diet (lots of whole grains). I think if I had the test done by your doctor, it would show many elevated elements, with lots of scary red showing, to convince me that I needed treatments.
     
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  7. men100

    men100

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    With the CN Base and the CN-3, many people in the Spanish chronic fatigue forum have noticed improvement (although some have to lower the dose due to discomfort). They say it is an excellent detoxifier. The fungus I imagine is to remove toxics from the blood and expel the body. For the ingredients of those medications, it seems like a process of restoring methylation, although I'm not sure.

    I'll start with one pill a day, instead of 3 just in case it gives me a lot of symptoms. He told me that I may feel worse at the beginning of the treatment.

    Greetings.
     
  8. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    Do report on the results of your experiment. It may help other people here, either to give it a try or not to bother. Reporting negative results (It didn't work.) is as important as reporting that it worked.
     
  9. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Heavy metals, like arsenic and lead, are definitely a problem. Arsenic inhibits ATP production, so getting rid of it can give you more energy. It's also carcinogenic. Metals can get sequestered in your mitochondria, as in the attached image of arsenic (the black stuff) in mitochondria.

    People get into trouble with chelation because they don't have good lab work to begin with or monitor as they go and they are following what worked for someone else on the Internet.

    I have chelated on and off for the past 7 years, using oral and IV chelators, under an expert doctor's supervision. I had lousy detox genes and a lot of toxicity, including arsenic, cadmium, lead, mercury, and platinum.

    To successfully chelate, you want to ensure your gall bladder and liver are working well and you have a high fiber diet and drink plenty of water. Then, you need to be replenishing "good" minerals, as chelation will pull them all out, good and bad. And you need to be on a good nutrient regimen, with ample B vitamins, antioxidants, and amino acids. The products you shared above look too low in nutrients to me, but perhaps they are for very slow, balanced chelation. I was in a bigger hurry and still it's taken me years and I still have toxins coming out of me. Getting rid of the arsenic greatly increased my energy.

    I encourage you to read everything you can on chelation BEFORE beginning, so you know how to avoid pitfalls. Ideally, you should work with an expert doctor to guide you and monitor you with lab tests. This will keep you out of trouble and protect your brain, liver, and kidneys.

    And trying to avoid putting toxins into you, or using ongoing strategies like eating cilantro and using saunas or sweating and eating organic foods and filtered water should help.

    Best wishes...
     

    Attached Files:

  10. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    In comprehensive supplementation successful against a PAD I take all of these nutrients too, but many at multiples of those amounts. Except the fungus (which I too take a number of), where neither the name nor amount is given. For example at the moment I'm at:

    So at least go sure that you don't pay a fortune for your micro-doses! Or get them somewhere else where they're reasonable prized.

    By the way, while supplementing I also monitored toxic metals in hair-tissues yearly for 10 years now. And I didn't mentioned my all already in range toxic metals moving in any direction (except uranium, which went up, 1 year above normal, then down again).
     
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  11. men100

    men100

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    Thanks for the answers!

    I'm glad to hear that arsenic takes energy away from me by obstructing ATP. What you say that the supply they have given me is a small amount, I do not know what to say. People in the Spanish forum report adverse effects if they take a lot of these supplements. In addition, the doctor told me to take 3 a day, so taking 3 a day is more like doses that you think is correct. What I'm afraid of are the adverse effects, I have chronic fatigue syndrome, disautonymy with POTS and I get a lot of pulsations for small changes and, besides, I have extrasistoles that scares me the most.

    regards!
     
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  12. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Of course, it is best practice to always start with lowest possible doses of a newly tested supplement, even by opening a capsule and taking only a fraction for the first weeks, then increase gradually over months and years. So that always possible adverse effects are caught earliest, and are still easy to correct. Often co-factor nutrients are missing in those cases, which have to be searched out. Or an allergy to some of the fillers or binders.

    That being said, with that many nutrients at high doses (all started low) and long time I had only one adverse reaction by recovering from a Vitamin D deficiency, a subclinical Magnesium deficiency was pushed in to very severe. Finally only overcome by getting Mg IVs.

    Therefore it's always good to proceed carefully.

    However, together with this unusual hair-follicle test, and basically a low-dose multi - which in my opinion through experience only would suffice to prevent worst deficiencies in a healthy persons, doing nothing if already sick - I do get a bit the impression of a marketing gag.

    Just to give you a comparison in price of a really good quality multi at an affordable price (no personal affiliation other than using their product): https://www.lifeextensioneurope.com/two-per-day-capsules-120-capsules-life-extension

    Contains 120 capsules and almost all ingredients of your CNbase and CN3 at much more useful doses. Also have it as tablets, which would be tastier to take if you decided to take a fraction, like a third each day. And that way one bottle would last a whole year for about 20,-€. This company has a special sale each year from Nov.-Jan., where prices of all products are reduced a further 25%.

    Just don't make the mistake to pay 50;- or more bucks for a month's supply such 'special' multies usually cost.
     
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  13. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    @pamojja , did you ever do a regular blood test for heavy metals, to compare the results? I'm just wondering if the alternative medicine tests show much scarier results than the regular medicine tests. Were the hair test results compared to scientifically proven normals (ie. safe blood and tissue levels reflected in hair levels) or compared to some poorly-explained values that you're just asked to accept as correct?
     
  14. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Blood tests will pick up acute levels, not levels sequestered deep in your body. A urine test provoked with one or more chelators will likely show higher levels, as they "claw" the toxins put of hiding, so the levels will look much scarier than in a non provoked blood test. Hair levels aren't provoked, but II understand that toxins may measure at different a relative amounts depending on what type of test is used.

    I had arsenic show up at acute levels on blood tests after taking alpha lipoic acid when it had looked low previously.

    No test will tell you how much of each toxin you have - they will only tell you if you have some in you.

    All I know is after 7 years of chelating, under a doctor's supervision, I still have stuff coming out of me, and various methods of measuring have shown different amounts over time, depending on what I was taking.

    As for taking supplements, I'm on a program similar to @pamojja and agree with her thoughts.
     
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  15. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    As already Learner1 said, the fault in conventional toxic-metal blood or urine tests is that it only would measure acute exposure, while at the same time bloody expensive to do on a regular basis. Also testing hair-follicles could show only what's present at that particular moment. While HTMA (hair tissue mineral analysis) has the advantage that it tests about 1 inch of hair from the skin, which represents the average exposure for the last 3 months. Additionally I get it relatively inexpensive for 60,-, including not only most important toxic-metals, but also a couple of dozens of trace- and mass elements (which all conventionally tested would cost almost a fortune).

    So many reason for me to prefer the HTMA, especially since I do use many Ayurvedic products on a ongoing basis, and with them certainly do have ongoing exposures to heavy-metals, but which my body seems to handle very well.

    Urine or blood test while taking a chelator, would most likely do show past exposures in almost everyone. But are not without risks, and without having a doc very experienced in heavy-metal toxicity and chelation afterwards (as Learner1 has found) sort of moot.

    Since HTMAs are around already since some time, some individuals certainly took interest in validating them with conventional methods. For example this experience:

    However, having tested other minerals in hair and serum through the years myself, my experience shows that conventional mineral testing can be just as erratic as HTMAs. Some - like important electrolytes - even more so, because some tests taken within days showed huge fluctuation. Once I got 2 serum calcium results, from the same blood-draw, and completely different results!! Therefore I prefer to take the whole picture with all tests reasonably available to me - which all are not without fault - including symptoms.

    While in my case alpha-lipoic acid use since many years didn't show any detox reaction so many are experiencing with it. Also found out afterwards that sodium bicarbonate is a chelator of uranium. And in fact just before the uranium started to rise in my hair I had started to take 3 g/d of bicarbonate.

    Therefore it appears to me that my body handles ongoing exposures pretty well (or my massive doses of nutrients really do ongoing chelation, as the practitioner of @men100 suggests). Others don't, but then really need someone experienced in chelation. I wouldn't want to open that pandora-box without good guidance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
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  16. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    One other factor I use and certainly aids in detoxing ongoing exposures:



    Since I took about 24 g/d of ascorbic acid since 10 years
     
  17. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    How are you getting that much into you?
     
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  18. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    Thanks @pamojja and @Learner1 , your responses seems to show that measuring elements in the body is still a difficult area with lots of conflicting opinions on how to do it and how to interpret the results. It seems to be a matter of finding an expert you can trust. I'd avoid practitioners with a conflict of interest, meaning that they make more money if they convince you that you need treatment. Far too much temptation to interpret results for their own personal benefit.
     
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  19. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Lol, as easy a taking two spoonful of sugar at a time in a glass of water. Usually 20 minutes before each of my two meals and before bed. With the slightest sniffle from my rhinitis on the spot again.

    Well, had only 2 choices with my chronic disease. Either take prescription drugs with serious possible side-effects but no hope on improving my condition for the rest of my life. Or find remedies without at least any side-effects. Ended up taking orthomolecular and herbal medicine on my own. It worked even to have remission from a walking-disability after 6 years. Since high dose supplements cost so much, and by only being able to work part-time with little income, consulting with practitioners wasn't and still isn't even an option.

    However, the few tests independently paid out of my pocket were always worth it. To interpret basic minerals, vitamins, and all the other lab-test like liver enzyms, kidney function marker, hormones, lipids, CBC, etc. which were ordered by my GP, but who never had any time to interpret them, with some reading and experience isn't really that difficult. Might be a different case with more special labs.
     
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  20. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    All practitioners who have any expertise in heavy metals make money by treating patients.

    And there are a lot of practitioners who know next to nothing about heavy metal toxicity that still make money by doing nothing.

    Given the choice, it seems prudent to go where the expertise is, especially if you're a patient like me, with a high level of toxicity who detoxes poorly and who has a family full of people with toxin-related diseases.

    If one is not careful, detoxing can move toxins into your brain or stress your liver or kidneys. I worked with 2 experts and have at times experienced unpleasant symptoms, raised ALT and AST and lowered GFR, generally because my body is good at Phase I detoxing, but lousy at Phase II, and my doctors have had to adjust their strategies depending on what was being excreted. My numbers have bounced back and a CT scan of my liver looked good.

    Some people embark on do-it-yourself programs and do ok, but it can get you into trouble, too, so some expertise and caution is prudent. And, if you enlist a doctors help, asking questions to plumb the depths of their knowledge would be wise.
     
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