Jonathan Edwards
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I have written to Gundersen but not had a reply. I am also hoping that Aftenposten will publish a brief response from me.
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Norwegian professor in biology supportive of PACE
- Thread starter Kalliope
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Snow Leopard
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He has given out 48 likes! Which gives you an indication of his temperament.
I wonder if he is a distant relative of the (parody account) @bob_gunderson?
Woolie
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Oh, I see. Then Woolie felt silly...
Well ... you are a pretty goofy-looking sheep after all
Maybe a sheepish-looking goofy will help her restore the balanceWell ... you are a pretty goofy-looking sheep after all
Should Aftenposten choose to not publish your response, you can still share it as a comment to the article.
Am looking forward to read it and appreciate your effort. He certainly won't listen to "mere" patients.
deleder2k
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He has a colomn in the paper once or twice a month about "bad" science. Last month he wrote a piece on why it is ridiculous for a mediocre Norwegian University/University College to have visions/missions. It sparked a national debate. I think he enjoys debates more than anyone (even politicians). He has written a book about why Chiropracy, homeopathy, and other forms of alternative medicine is quackery. He is also very clear that researchers must be able to say and mean whatever they'd like - even about controversial political stuff.
It is not like he is the most influential academic here in the Kingdom, but he is highly vocal. He raises many issues in his column in the "The Evening News" (Aftenposten). Because of that, and because of him being highly vocal in other debates he gets airtime on radio in different debate programs. Perhaps some think he is somewhat lunatic, but nevertheless his opinions reaches out to most Norwegians.
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Jonathan Edwards
"Gibberish"
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It is looking promising. Keep an eye out.
deleder2k
Senior Member
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Journalist Jørgen Jelstad who wrote the book called De Bortgjemte (The Hidden) has written a reply to professor Gundersen at his own blog. I don't have the capacity to translate it, but here is a Google translation link: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=https://debortgjemte.com/2016/04/26/hva-om-pasientene-har-rett-kristian-gundersen/&edit-text=
Check this out too if you haven't:
Check this out too if you haven't:
BurnA
Senior Member
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Jonathan Edwards
"Gibberish"
- Messages
- 5,256
Well, with the wiggle-room of translation, that seems to be almost exactly what we sent to Aftenposten! Except they asked us to be a bit shorter. But Jelstad has done a good job here - clear and well balanced. Nice blog.
deleder2k
Senior Member
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Yup! It seems really good, and looks almost like what you sent to Aftenposten. A tweet has been sent to Kristian Gundersen regarding Jelstad's article. It says "What if patients are right, Kristian Gundersen?"
Bob
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It's a very good article. I'd love to see something similar published in a UK newspaper. And it would be nice to read a UK translation (other than Google).
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Jørgen Jelstad is an amazing capacity! His very informative book on ME - "The hidden" was published in 2011 and contains the history of research on ME up till Fluge&Mellas Rituximab-research.
The book managed to create quite a debate on ME. It was even recommended by the politician Erna Solberg at the Norwegian Parliament. She is now the prime minister of Norway.
The book was published at one of the largest publishing houses, and it is now in its 3. or 4. edition.
Jørgen Jelstad has a blog with the same name as the book (De bortgjemte). Here he keeps his followers up to date on research and other ME-related news. He has even translated all the three blog posts on PACE from David Tuller into Norwegian, in order to make them more accessible for Norwegian readers.
In 2013 he held a wonderful speech at the pre conference dinner to the Invest In ME-conference. The speech is called "Words matter".
The Norwegian ME Association - Department Rogaland - organised a lecture evening on ME where Jørgen Jelstad was one of 6 speakers. The lectures were taped and made into a DVD. The DVD is available with English subtitles for the Norwegian lectures.
Brilliant article, especially the last paragraph, and the analogy with MS following. Such an analogy is a great way to illustrate what has happened with PACE to the scientifically and statistically clueless public (I include myself in that).
Woolie
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@Kalliope, @deleder2k (and others here), your Norway is really quite an amazing country. The stories you tell us about ME paint a picture of a government that is genuinely open to debate, and a journalistic culture which actually works. Your small country seems in many ways a model for the rest of the world!
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Bob
Senior Member
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- England (south coast)
The article includes an enormous amount of detail surrounding the PACE trial that i wouldn't have expected anyone to know, except for people like us and David Tuller who have followed events very closely; Including details that I've almost never seen mentioned elsewhere such as the PACE trial's "number needed to treat".
That sounds promising.