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No start-up?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by idn0, Mar 4, 2015.

  1. idn0


    Hi guys,

    I have spent 2 weeks phasing in the basic supplements in @Freddd 's procotol:

    Vitamin D - 5,000IU
    Vitamin C - 4,000IU
    Vitamin E Complex - 400IU
    B Complex - Thiamin 15mg, Riboflavin 10.2mg, Niacin 50mg, B6 5mg, Pantothenic Acid 10mg
    P5P - 33.8mg
    Pantethine - 450mg
    R-ALA + Biotin (100mg, 150mcg respectively)
    Fermented Cod Liver + Butter Oil - 3x caps
    Lecithin - 600mg
    Zinc - 30mg
    Calcium - 1g
    Magnesium - Roughly 650mg

    1. Should Vit K2 be added considering the high dose of Vit D?
    2. Should Lithium be added to support B12 transfer?
    3. Should Potassium be supplemented in general, if I have a low potassium diet?

    Today I finally started MeCbl. But to my amazement felt no start-up effects... I was expecting a profound mental brightening but there was very little response. The guides I have seen recommend starting at 1/4mg to 1mg to mitigate start-up effects.

    I tried 1mg Enzy, followed by 1mg Jarrow MeCbl. Both left in between my lip and gum for 30mins each, by which point they were very small and seemed to stop dissolving.

    Considering this response..

    1. Should I stay at low MeCbl and begin Mfolate right away?
    2. Should I ramp up MeCbl right away?
    3. Should I begin co-factors?

    Sorry if this information is posted elsewhere, I've spent hours reading and almost everything talks about how to use start-up symptoms to adapt your protocol, but I can't recall seeing anything about what to do if you don't experience anything. I don't know my SNPs or Methylation status so I am flying blind here.

    Edit: I forgot to add just in case, I have had "CFS like symptoms" for around 10 years, following a vaccination at school. I'm now 22 and things have gotten worse since then. I was diagnosed with CFS by Dr Rosamund Vallings who is apparently relevant in the CFS world, but following a big crash after her prescribed HydroxyB12 injections I decided to do my own research which led me here. The post-HydroxyB12 crash seemed to be a clue which suggested cofactor deficiency(?). I don't follow the biochemistry very easily, so appreciate a slightly higher level view :)

    Thanks for the help
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  2. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie


    First off, great job on all the research and getting all those supplements together and balanced so nicely. You are definitely on top of things!

    No reaction to MeCbl is maybe, probably a good sign. It MIGHT mean that you are not severely deficient and may not need the huge doses some of us take. It could well be that this protocol is not appropriate for you, after all!

    I would be good to know your SNPs and methylation status before attempting a very advanced protocol like Freddd's. You could get an 23andMe and Whole Blood Histamne test done for under $200, probably. You could see if you have the genetic flaws and if yes, if they are being expressed as poor mehtylation.

    I am sure you absorbed B12 some in your mouth tissue - but sublingual technically means "below the tounge" - you might want to change to this position to see if there is any difference.

    I would be cautious - not just random - about supplementing potassium. Based on generalized web advice... I overdid it on a several occasions and it is very unpleasant, maybe damaging to the body. Yes, there are times when the body craves potassium (esp. with high dose methylfolate)... I have experienced it... and times when you can have all kinds of other "look a like" symptoms. If you are having one of dozens of similar reaction, and just assume you need potassium and take more and more... it can suck.

    If you are going to fly blind.. you can try 200mcg of methylfolate one morning and the dissolve some B12. If your are deficient in these nutrients, as I seem to be, it creates a very noticable "night and day" level of reaction.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  3. idn0



    Thanks mate, appreciate the help!

    Yeah, that crossed my mind. But I felt quite a nice "brightening" from the 10k mg hydroxyB12 shot, followed by a crash, so I inferred a strong indication of methylation issues. Though I know B12 is known to be therapeutic in CFS outside of methylation issues, so I could well be wrong. I've also had low serum folate in the past, extremely low Vit D which both point in this direction (among others).

    I decided against the genetic test because it didn't seem conclusive. The Methylation Profile test seemed to be the better option, but is rather expensive! Freddd's post pretty much gave me the sense that if tests are gonna break the bank and cost you 6 months, better just start and experiment.

    Thanks for this, if I don't get anywhere with my experiments in the next couple weeks this might be a good tool to tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree or not. Interesting that Yasko doesn't offer this one?

    Again really appreciate the response. The sense of community here is therapeutic in its own right! everyone in my life just thinks I'm lazy and crazy :rolleyes:

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