Methylation problem - difficulty sustaining MTHF benefits

[Freddd]

How much is a large dose? And isn't inositol a methyl donor? So why would it do that?

You see, I took 150 mg of inositol this morning and the brain fog I got was horrid. It didn't lift until I had taken 2 x 80 mg of niacinamide. (Then I managed to e-mail a client in French about a complicated issue, but needed a nap afterwards.)

Hi Picante,

I tried 250mg of inositol and it was WAY TO MUCH, it increased my folate deficiency symptoms, increased my need for potassium beyond what my stomach could tolerate. It seems to overcrank one narrow section of methylation. This is an IF., a consideration IF etc. I don't know what is, hypothesis: just how it appears by symptoms. If MeCbl/l-methylfolate influences 300 symptoms, then consider that each of these b-vitamins (b1, b2, b3) , some of the metals like copper and manganese etc, each influences a smaller swath of symptoms. So low copper can cause connective tissue problems (ie gums, spider veins, varicose veins) , in many places, some demyelination "like" that of sub acute combined degeneration but mostly in certain places, ie upper motor neurons, depression, sleep disorders, breakdown of some of the finger tip skin by the corners of the nails but not the cheilitis or acne type lesions like methylfolate deficiency. The other vitamins work MUCH BETTER with MeCbl/AdoCbl/L-methylfolate, l-carnitine. Balance is very important. The huge doses to force a small part of the pathway throws everything else out of balance. I don't know specific whys for any of these 4 but have observed each in action, doing A-B-A-B until I see the differences, good bad or indifferent.

 

[Freddd]

Also I just circled back around to biotin & it's really helpful

Excellent! That steps up the ATP part a bit. It can put more demand on other things.

I would like to say I am taking an ordinary amino acid chelated copper, 20 mg/day and it is working most excellently. It corrected problems just noticeably at 4 hours after first dose and is still doing so. The spider veins are fading noticeably each few days. My gums are no longer cyanotic and inflamed, but rather of normal pink color. I have less inflammation than before the copper

 

[crowquill]

Basically you got methylation started and then it went away, with other symptoms. Sounds like a refeeding syndrome "induced deficiencies".

I have been reading about refeeding syndrome and it doesn't seem to fit. Methylation did get started then went away but no new symptoms appeared, just the ones that were there before starting methylation. None of the folate or potassium deficiency symptoms.

My ND is coming today so will discuss the other ideas regarding supplement levels and see what we can come up with. Thank you all for your input.

Andy

 

[Freddd]

I have been reading about refeeding syndrome and it doesn't seem to fit. Methylation did get started then went away but no new symptoms appeared, just the ones that were there before starting methylation. None of the folate or potassium deficiency symptoms.

My ND is coming today so will discuss the other ideas regarding supplement levels and see what we can come up with. Thank you all for your input.

Andy

Hi Andy,

Refeeding syndrome happens aftetr one gets a good solid healing going, as often happens with MeCbl, L-methylfolate, AdoCbl and L-carnitine and typically without folinic acid etc. Part one has to occur before part two.

 

[SJB944]

Excellent! That steps up the ATP part a bit. It can put more demand on other things.

I would like to say I am taking an ordinary amino acid chelated copper, 20 mg/day and it is working most excellently. It corrected problems just noticeably at 4 hours after first dose and is still doing so. The spider veins are fading noticeably each few days. My gums are no longer cyanotic and inflamed, but rather of normal pink color. I have less inflammation than before the copper

Does increasing Biotin put demands on anything in particular, or is it general thing?

 

[Freddd]

My impression is that it increases potassium need depending upon how much of the ATP increases healing. All in all, the AdoCbl, LCF and Biotin increased my potassium (and "energetic feeling" about 1000 to 1200 mg of potassium. Biotin was about 10% of the lot for me. This varies by the person's individual profile.

 

[SJB944]

Thanks @Freddd , I just introduced 300mcg of Biotin, which has wired me up a little, and got the mind racing a bit, trying to see what impact it has on my current symptoms -- looking for that missing element.

 

[Johnmac]

Excellent! That steps up the ATP part a bit. It can put more demand on other things.

I would like to say I am taking an ordinary amino acid chelated copper, 20 mg/day and it is working most excellently. It corrected problems just noticeably at 4 hours after first dose and is still doing so. The spider veins are fading noticeably each few days. My gums are no longer cyanotic and inflamed, but rather of normal pink color. I have less inflammation than before the copper

@Freddd, is your copper deficiency gone now? (I've just given it to myself again - too much zinc again, from treating pyroluria. -Cu is a horror deficiency.)

Is/was 20 mg/day chelated copper okay for you? I've read that 10 is the upper recommended limit. But I'd take 20 if I thought I could get away with it, & it did more than the 10.

I find the main symptom is crashed immune system, presumably from neutropenia: I become very prone to staph skin infections & the like (currently a huge boil). Nails get ratty & pitted; skin gets psoriatic. Mood gets highly irritable. Not aware of any demyelination.

In the big swings in my Zn/Cu ratio over the last year, I've "cured" my 40-year psoriasis - twice, for several weeks each time. The first time was when beginning zinc to treat pyroluria. But then the psoriasis came back as copper stores fell. I added copper, & it disappeared again. Now a month or so after stopping copper supps, I'm apparently deficient in copper, & the psoriasis is back.

Dr Walsh has said that psoriasis responds best when the Zn/Cu ratio is right (absolute values of each are only part of it), so there's obviously a sweet spot in there somewhere. With tests of each mineral being so unreliable, I guess it's "dose by symptoms".

Hope you are good.