International ME/CFS and FM Awareness Day Is On May 12, 2018
Thomas Hennessy, Jr., selected May 12th to be our international awareness day back in 1992. He knew that May 12th had also been the birthday of Florence Nightingale. She was the English army nurse who helped to found the Red Cross as well as the first school of nursing in the world.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Love and hate for vitamin B6

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Gondwanaland, May 18, 2016.

  1. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes:
    1,035
    Taking B vitamins in the evening is not a good idea as they tend to be stimulants.
    For some people this is not the case but if you're experimenting it's better to do it during the day where you can benefit of the energy boost / alertness etc...

    good luck
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  2. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,666
    Likes:
    1,003
    Okay, thanks, Peter. I'll try taking it in the AM for a couple of days.
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  3. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes:
    3,834
    Adding some interesting info:

     
    Violeta, cfs6691 and Little Bluestem like this.
  4. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

    Messages:
    218
    Likes:
    135
    Wow! Been trying some B6 lately in form of P5P. Opened up a 50 mg capsule & eyeballed about a 1/8 tsp of powder.

    First response - quite heightened fatigue/drowsiness the next day.

    Second time - eyeballed perhaps a bit less - second response: like speed!!! Couldn't sleep a wink, next morning, so much stimulation in my brain. I'm tired/++super wired.

    Just ran my genetics through LiveWello & apparently I have a snp that lends itself to lower B6: CC genotype for rs4654748

    Well that explains some things.

    I also found out that I have MAOB issues not MAOA issues.

    So... just pondering/figuring out how to perhaps support B6 in more limited doses without the binge/purge serotonin action that seems to be going on with ++drowsiness/hyperstimulation.

    Might just avoid the B6 thing all together, dunno. I'm appreciating everyone's previous posts - thank-you.

    Star
     
  5. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes:
    3,834
    My husband and I have similar reaction to P5P - I am +/+ MAO-A and he is - MAO-A. We both get headaches and nausea from high serotonin after a few days - it is cummulative just like histamine.

    B6 must be balanced with B2 and magnesium which breakdown serotonin.

    Welcome back!
     
  6. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

    Messages:
    218
    Likes:
    135
    Thanks @Gondwanaland :)

    Funny that you say that. I was like --- hey this feels like a histamine reaction.

    And thank-you kindly for the advice re: B2 & magnesium. I was already sniffing out some magnesium but haven't thought about B2.

    Happy holidays to everyone!

    Star
     
  7. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes:
    3,834
    Happy holidays to you too!

    Watch out for further depletions by B6 down the road... It uses up lots of minerals.
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes:
    3,834
    It can actually be a histamine reaction on top of excess serotonin since you are depleting B2.
     
  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,281
    Likes:
    45,887
    CC is the more common version for that SNP. It would be more accurate to say that CT or TT raises B6 levels a little bit. And it's a pretty small amount of difference, so it wouldn't be causing any problems on its own.
     
    Gondwanaland and Star-Anise like this.
  10. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

    Messages:
    218
    Likes:
    135
    @Gondwanaland
    A big big thank-you for starting this post & providing all the information that you have. It has been so very helpful. I love this forum & the people here. It is such a good thing that we are part of supporting each other in this way.

    My question from Alison Vickery http://alisonvickery.com.au/why-your-vitamin-b6-level-is-important/:

    Dosage is usually 0.25mg – 0.5mg Vitamin B6, and 0.25mg – 0.5mg P5p

    Does she mean total amount per day? Someone suggested in the comments per pound of body weight: "That dose is below the RDA of 1.3mg/day. Maybe you meant .25-.5mg per pound of body weight? That would make more sense."

    If that's what she means per day. Wow that is low. My only question is - is it effective at this low? I dunno. Maybe it's my old brain thinking here. The more = better conditioning that I have with supplements. When I started taking methylation supplements definitely a little went a looooong ways, lol.

    Got an hour or two of sleep tonight. Totally feeling the anorexia, headaches, nausea from the serotonin overdose. I hope it passes soon.

    You mentioned B2 helps. I picked some up yesterday. I was a little reluctant to try something new due to my body freaking out. But now I'm tempted after reading more in this thread to take some B2. I tried some magnesium last night. Just took a tiny amount. Helped a bit. I'm sensitive to magnesium too. So likely if I keep my dose small right now some calming benefits could be obtained from the magnesium.

    Thanks again!
    Star
     
  11. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

    Messages:
    218
    Likes:
    135
    Thanks @Valentijn that's one thing I don't have to worry about! :) :) Yay!
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes:
    3,834
    The max amount I take daily is 1 mg of non-coenzymated form. Boy is it effective :wide-eyed:

    I used to take 10 - 30 mg of regular B6 in my B complex and all I could feel was deficiency symptoms.

    Then one day I started taking biotin 500mcg. In the 3rd day I had anaphylaxis, hives all over the body and swollen mucosa in throat and mouth. Then I took 3mg P5P and in minutes it all went away. Plus I felt great. So I kept taking P5P 3 - 6 mg daily and after 2 weeks of feeling awesome and having ditched all my thyroid replacement I started to have a serotonin syndrome - nausea, headache, sweating. Then I took B2 and it went away. Then I got hypothyroid and had to restart my hormone replacement. I did try iodine at some point but my autoimmunity can't handle it.

    I think that some people like me have a huge burden of uric acid deposited in the tissues to be mobilized and this is what causes problems. When the uric acid is mobilized, there is a surge in salicylate sensitivity, increasing the need for B5 and magnesium.

    Don't forget that B6 needs zinc (a mineral which I don't tolerate - I suspect it mobilizes uric acid).

    EDIT -- B6 protects the kidneys against oxalates and uric acid - this is something I am still looking itno
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
    Star-Anise likes this.
  13. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

    Messages:
    218
    Likes:
    135
    @Gondwanaland Yes. You are definitely onto something here with the uric acid & Zinc connection. Definitely. HMMMM. I'm going to do some experimenting. Thanks again! :)
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes:
    3,834
    So @Star-Anise I forgot to add that after this experience with P5P even the tiniest amount of P5P would cause me hypothyroid symptoms, but OTOH now I finally feel good effects from taking regular B6 - like it is finally getting activated endogenously again.

    So according to the above, it seems that there are environmental factors that block endogenous B6 activation.
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  15. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

    Messages:
    218
    Likes:
    135
    Already feeling better from about 10mg B2 & an anti-histamine. Whoo!:thumbsup: @Gondwanaland - you are a lifesaver! My head was getting into the *crazy-zone* that's the closest I have felt to needing to be on the psych ward!

    Star:balloons::balloons::balloons:
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  16. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX

    Messages:
    77
    Likes:
    34
    Great thread. I’m currently trying to figure out the balance of all the b vitamins, and as of today realized p5p gives me tachypnea, tinnitus, crazy stimulation, Insomnia and bizarre skin sensitivity (my beard feels extra prickly). This is all from 25mg p5p a day for 3 days. The kicker is it definitely clears my brain fog, but at 15mg I still have some brain fog (unless I didn’t give 15mg enough time to work).

    And I realize this is an old one; just hoping y’all are still around and have figured more out!
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    PennyIA likes this.
  17. PennyIA

    PennyIA Senior Member

    Messages:
    721
    Likes:
    1,672
    Iowa
    Wish I had better knowledge. Last I've heard is that it might be good to try p5p, but if you have a bad reaction to try the regular b6 along with p5p. I've not tried it yet as I'm currently having horrid side effects if I take any supplements at all at this point. Not sure if I've messed things up permanently, if things just need to get out of my system, or if in fact, I fixed something that wasn't broken before which is now causing issues further downstream in the health process.

    Best educated guess is that my body has suddenly started to really dump toxins out at a much higher rate than a normal person but that the 'clean up process' that would typically occur to transport these toxins out of my system isn't working correctly. Instead my body is tryiing to encapsulate the toxins in painful, fatty, 'harmless - ha', tumors. Pain is horrid. I go through bad episodes that seem to last right around 3 months; bounce back less and less each time. Current working theory is that if I hadn't had methylation issues and issues with some processes that helped keep toxin processing at perfect performance I might have had this other issue longer... but because those are working better now, it's uncovered other, previously unknown, health concerns. Trying to go supplement free pretty much sucks because I really did enjoy the boost of energy most of my b vitamins provided.
     
    GreenMachineX likes this.
  18. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX

    Messages:
    77
    Likes:
    34
    I’m pretty sure I’ve done the same thing: started a process I can’t stop now or fixed something that wasn’t broke (100% unintentionally as well).

    Its been 4 days off p5p and still have insomnia!!!
     
  19. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX

    Messages:
    77
    Likes:
    34
    Well, to clarify, I’m still taking 3mg p5p so not completely off. I’ll be stopping it completely tomorrow I think and switching to a run of the mill normal multi until I get my sleep back on track, then reassess.
     
  20. datura

    datura

    Messages:
    43
    Likes:
    19
    Just an anecdote -- in individuals without pyroluria, taking unnecessary B6 supplements can be dangerous. I would encourage anyone who suspects a deficiency to get a serum B6 test first. Symptoms of deficiency are similar to those of toxicity. The United States' upper tolerable limit is actually very high compared to other countries. Most of us get plenty of this vitamin from diet, especially if one eats meat. High, and even modestly high doses of B6 can cause toxicity symptoms in certain individuals, such as small fiber nerve damage. Generally this can be reversed, but it can take years to resolve after stopping supplementation. Just a word of caution, as this happened to me, and I've found many others through support groups who experienced devastating effects.
     
    Gondwanaland and GreenMachineX like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page