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I can now sleep...with this curry

maryb

iherb code TAK122
Messages
3,602
Location
UK
what is asafoetida, would you have to get this from a special shop? Can anyone break down the quantities so that I can try a small batch, doing 20/25 onions would put me in bed!!
would be appreciated as I think there is something in this, hope you are still sleeping well @cigana
 

Richard7

Senior Member
Messages
772
Location
Australia
asafoetida or hing is a resin, it should be available from any south asian grocer as its a part of many (but not all) indian cuisines.

It has a very strong smell, it often reminds me of rotting potatoes. Its one of those things (like trasi) that are pretty appalling raw but nice cooked.

I keep my plastic jar of asafoetida in a airtight glass jar.

I have rarely cooked anything that asked for more than a good pinch of it and it is usually sold in 80 or 100g containers.

Here is the wiki article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asafoetida
 

perchance dreamer

Senior Member
Messages
1,691
I love asafoetida. The flavor is very bright and strong. I can't liken it to anything else, though.

My city has a couple of spice shops where you can buy spices in bulk. They let you buy a small amount to see if you like it.
 

cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,095
Location
UK
what is asafoetida, would you have to get this from a special shop? Can anyone break down the quantities so that I can try a small batch, doing 20/25 onions would put me in bed!!
would be appreciated as I think there is something in this, hope you are still sleeping well @cigana
Asafoetida (also known as Hing) is just a spice, which is often used in indian cooking.
If you're in an area of the UK with a high indian/pakistani population, you'll probably be able to buy it in your local supermarket (eg Sainsbury's). Otherwise you'll have to look for ethnic shops or specialist spice shops.
This stuff still guarantees that I don't wake up (at least not for long) during the night!
Although, to be honest, I can't say I've gained any noticeable improvement in other symptoms as a result...
 

cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,095
Location
UK
@cigana
Have you considered that the reason you get a good night's sleep from turmeric-containing curry is because turmeric is a natural antihistamine? Antihistamines can help induce sleep.
As you probably know curcumin has many pharmacological effects, and I don't know which one helps (though I have tried other substances that mimic each of those effects to no avail, including anti-histamines).
I should point out that if I make a curry with turmeric only, I do not get the full night's sleep effect. So, it is clear either one of the other spices/ingredients is important, and possibly the combination of ingredients.
 

cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,095
Location
UK
would your 20 -25 onions be 4-5 kilos or 8.8-10 lbs?

I know in Australia a dessert spoon is 25mls and internationally its 20mls, so I assume you are saying 60-80mls of hing, or about a quater to a third of a cup, is that right.

I'm, I hope obviously, asking because I am interested, though I expect I will start with a small batch.
I'm not sure of the weight of the onions, but each onion is about the size of a tennis ball.
Yeah you're right it's about a third or quarter of a cup.
In all my experimentation, the exact quantities don't seem to matter, just make sure you've got roughly the right proportions among the various spices and eat enough of it.
 

cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,095
Location
UK
Hi,
were you other attempts with the same ingredients?
Sorry I don't quite understand your question...

I've tried following the recipe with only the spices, oil and water, then drinking the resulting "paste". This did not give me a good night's sleep.
 

cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,095
Location
UK
I should point out that I always include lots of potatoes in these curries, not sure if that is essential or not, though I get the feeling it is because once I only used courgettes (no potato) and didn't sleep well.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
As you probably know curcumin has many pharmacological effects, and I don't know which one helps (though I have tried other substances that mimic each of those effects to no avail, including anti-histamines).

I appreciate that.

I only mentioned this antihistamine angle because I recently saw this study analyzing why the drug amitriptyline is an effective treatment for insomnia.

The conclusion of the study was that amitriptyline's H1 receptor antagonism is probably responsible most of this drug's sleep-inducing effects (with amitriptyline's 5-HT2 and cholinergic muscarinic antagonism possibly also playing a role).
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,335
Location
Southern California
@cigana
Glad you managed to find the recipe that recreates the soporific effect of Indian restaurant curry.


Just a thought, but have you tried the much more bioavailable Longvida formulation of curcumin? Now Foods do a good value for money supplement called CurcuBrain, which contains 400 mg of Longvida curcumin per capsule. I believe there are studies showing Longvida is around 60 times more absorbable than standard curcumin.

Assuming it is the NF-κB inhibition of curcumin that is allowing you to sleep, you might also consider other NF-κB inhibitors such as the herb shwagandha (Withania somnifera), grape seed extract, or the drug sulfasalazine (a potent NF-κB inhibitor).

@Hip - do you have any idea how curcumin with black pepper standardized to 95% curcmin (like this product: http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-Best-Curcumin-C3-Complex-500-mg-120-Capsules/13) might compare with CurcuBrain?
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
I can't remember all the details now, but when I looked at various curcumin formulations a while back, Longvida curcumin looked to be the best bet for absorption. Now Foods do a Longvida curcumin called CurcuBrain which is good value.
 

cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,095
Location
UK
I've tried various curcumins including CurcuBrain and they didn't help sleep, only Enhansa seems to work for me.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
I've tried various curcumins including CurcuBrain and they didn't help sleep, only Enhansa seems to work for me.

There are a lot of more things in turmeric than just curcumin. Ar-turmerone in turmeric is thought to reduce microglial-activation. 1

For anti-anxiety purposes, I find turmeric much better than curcumin.
 
Last edited:

Richard7

Senior Member
Messages
772
Location
Australia
Sorry I don't quite understand your question...

I've tried following the recipe with only the spices, oil and water, then drinking the resulting "paste". This did not give me a good night's sleep.

I was just trying to puzzle out wheather it was chiefly a matter of what was passed on to the gut, or chiefly a matter of what was being absorbed.


The thing is that I have mostly sorted my gut out, after about 12 yrs of dysbiosis. So I am a bit wary of asafoetida. I used to use it as a matter of course in cooking indian food, and adding it to dishes that contained a lot of pulses. And know of it as both a garlic and onion alternative for Jains and Hare krishna devotees, and as a thing that is meant to reduce flatulence.


When I started eating a lot of pulses to try to feed my microbiome I did not add asafoetida, because I wanted the bacteria to thrive. But even though most of the info I have read has just being fibre = good; more fibre = better. Or rather that this is the case if you do not have a known pathogen. I have wondered about the randomness of this adding food and just hoping the right internal ecosystem establishes itself.


It looks from the abstract that adding spices like asafoetida will prune that ecosystem, so I was wondering if it was just the spices then it might be chiefly about gut changes.


I know that a lot of theses spices have constituents that are bioactive, so if it was a matter of getting the right spices and the right method I thought it would be more likely to be about you absorbing the spices, or their bioactive constituents.


Of course the method could also be making the spices more active on the bacteria.


I don't know, I'm just going to try making a 1/5 version of the recipe to see how it works.


Oh and re the potatoes, it could be something about glycaemic load. You probably know that there are a lot of people who write about diet who are concerned about how food changes the glucose and insulin levels in the blood.


From what I have read adding fat and fibre really slow down the release of the glucose. So it may be that when you add potatoes to all that fibre from the rest onions etc and the oil that you get a very slow release of glucose into your blood.


Potatoes have are of course higher in carbs than the zucchini/courgettes, so there would be a larger slow release load.


I am reminded of a suggestion that Myhill made suggesting that a lot of people wake because they are have low blood glucose (hypoglycaemic).


But don't know. Shame that.

Thanks for the recipe Cigana.
 

cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,095
Location
UK
Oh and re the potatoes, it could be something about glycaemic load. You probably know that there are a lot of people who write about diet who are concerned about how food changes the glucose and insulin levels in the blood.


From what I have read adding fat and fibre really slow down the release of the glucose. So it may be that when you add potatoes to all that fibre from the rest onions etc and the oil that you get a very slow release of glucose into your blood.


Potatoes have are of course higher in carbs than the zucchini/courgettes, so there would be a larger slow release load.
Thanks for the recipe Cigana.
Yeah it's a good point that I was considering too, I guess it should be easy to test the hypothesis!
 

perchance dreamer

Senior Member
Messages
1,691
The foods that really help me with sleep are turkey and sweet potatoes for dinner, particularly together.

I keep reading articles that it's a myth that turkey helps with sleep because it actually has less tryptophan than chicken. But chicken has zero effect on my sleep, and turkey does.