overtrain
Medical Mafia needs to die via this virus.
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A
And i felt like I wasn't doing enough...So, do everything under the sun. Got it!
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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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And i felt like I wasn't doing enough...So, do everything under the sun. Got it!
Well, in that case, I hope you can understand that no one has any onus to read about your problems or respond to them.Onus of responsibility, wow. Definitely not my problem. Over and out.
It's sad some attempted to hijack the thread with their own agenda. Back in the day, i would have let someone exhaust me jumping thru hoops doing what they can do for themselves. It's called codependency. And the issue isn't concern for the poster or answering her Q. which was already answered generously. If it was, someone would have stepped up & answered it FOR her, again, lol.Well, in that case, I hope you can understand that no one has any onus to read about your problems or respond to them.
Best of luck.
Wayne, thank you. That is key about type A recovery or not. Everything about American culture is type A. It's a kind of addiction. When I was in grad school for the second time (there's a clue, ha) I wrote THREE theses, not one. One of them got awarded best thesis out of several depts' graduating classes. So for me it's a C-22. Times I've gone over & above were when I saw results, not otherwise so much.Hi Overtrain,
Just got caught up on this thread, and found your story quite interesting. Just a few observations/comments regarding your concerns about relapsing: --- It sounds like a quite a confluence of events led to your initial breakdown, and since you've been able to identify them, and I assume intend to avoid anything similar in the future, this bodes well for your future health.
Also, it sounds like you've pushed yourself most of your life, and have "over-exercised" a fair amount. You made a comment about being vigilant about not doing that in the future, and I think if you stick to that, it may be your most important thing to do. Paul Cheney once mentioned that he didn't notice any difference between the number of Type A and non-Type A individuals/personalities developing CFS, but did notice a BIG in how their illnesses progressed. I think he was referring to Type A's unwillingness to slow down and let themselves stay in a healing cycle long enough to fully recover.
I think cycles in our lives are important. When we are active, it's important to not overdo things. And when we finish an active cycle, whether for a day, or few days, weeks, etc, we need to honor recuperative and rest times. I think if you can do that, along with all the other things that have somehow brought you to your current improving health situation, then you should be in good shape. --- Thanks for sharing your story.
All the Best, Wayne
Wow, thank you. I hadn't thought of how events like, well, life, will keep transpiring with inevitables & surprises bc of my little illness bubble. This is the big picture.I took tons of supplements at the beginning and could pass many times for normal, of course I was sleeping 10hrs a day with many rests and tried to hide the critical times but after about 12 yrs I got sick of swallowing all those pills. I believe my health went downhill from there and I probably should have gotten into intervenous supp. but by that time I had little money and used the money I did have to better my location hoping a safer place and easier living would help with the slack. It didn't. So as long as you can take those vitamins and try different avenues to help your body, do them because age, accidents, economy etc. and other stresses are bound to happen. It's great about the remission but remember it may only be that - remission and be very careful with the exercising. I only stayed the same or got worse. Great post.
Absolutely agree there's more to this - in my case, i sense it's VIRAL. I thought that from the beginning. It felt very viral and A LOT like when i got a one and thankfully only herpes outbreak. I think researchers are still in the dark about viruses in general. It's also true i physically overtrained to an outrageous point well past what normal people do. I was also using cleaning supplies twice a week i did not have choice about using. I had had a number of X-rays and then, already sick with mono, moved into a mold-infested place with roaches everywhere, even crawling on me at night. The rugs were very old, stained, etc, & apt. Complex had a central unit to unit type set up for air. There was standing water in the water heater closet. I wasn't Section 8, but anyone who had it there the gov. Made move as the conditions are so bad.
I don't bother w CDC anything. I only read this site and real ppls' experiences. It's heartening to read ppl in 60s can recover... I'm 51...
just seems so odd to be deathly ill then 2 years later functional again. I think i'll set my mind to forget ppl often relapse, & keep on thinking i'm the exception. In fact, it's weird looking back now, but from day 1 i told everyone i was going to be the exception and get over this thing. Did I believe that all the time? No, not at all. But i kept repeating the empty words when i didn't think they held value AFTER the last ER visit when i was too sick to even make final arrangements.
Thank you for the thought about not setting date on total wellness... I've been tempted to do so, esp. Since i want to relocate to AZ asap. I'm sorry to read how long you have been sick. Do you get a sense of what brought it on? I'm sure you have tried everything, incl doxy, to bring the temp down. You sound very positive despite it all. That's amazing. I hope you do recover. I too would hear a friend say they had a cold, or were tired, etc. & i'd seethe in jealousy. What a long, strange trip it's been.
Which begs the Q. about examining how one goes about interacting with others online or off; interfering, being codependent, causing unnecessary drama and in general behaving as the "should" police. You SHOULD answer in THIS way, you SHOULD break paragraphs like so & so says is right, you SHOULD answer shorter or longer, you SHOULD take part in a clear waste of your time repeating yourself because we say so. If it stresses you out, tough, because you SHOULD do what we say or risk our ongoing disapproval and, well, bickering at you for not being our malleable blow-up doll.
Seriously? Well, where I come from, breaking up long stretches of text into shorter paragraphs because seriously ill people with cognitive problems may not be able to read long stretches of text, is called 'being considerate towards others'.
@dannybexFits what I was suggesting earlier, and more importantly, what others have found. My laymen's interpretation is that perhaps a virus or viruses, etc., may have been part of the picture, but the 'outrageous' overtraining (which screws up/suppresses proper immune function), plus inhaling all the toxic fumes from the cleaning supplies, combined with the mold, standing water, etc., may have been the straws the finally broke the camel's back. Not to mention writing three thesis papers…!!!
Here's one of several studies that talks about exercise and immune function:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12696983
They definitely can and do. But they typically flee the ME/CFS community because a majority often tend to become suspicious that they were ever sick, or "really" sick. That happened in our local group with the woman who was ill for 16 years and bedridden for two of those years -- she actually got very nasty emails backchannel -- just bizarre. I'll be fifty-gulp-six in a month, so I'm in the same boat.
Yup, there's a lot of emotions, and a lot of understandable anger. But anger (which increases stress hormones) gets in the way of healing every time. And just because others have been sick longer, or recovered in different ways, or said they had to avoid this or that before they got well and you'll have to do the same thing -- doesn't mean you will need to do so. We're all different.
Howard Bloom, who will be one of the patients featured in the "Canary in a Coal" mine talks about the mind-body connection, how suggestible we can be without knowing it, and also how everyone is different -- and also how (most) doctors are worthless (he's a little more blunt). But this series of interviews -- about 7 minutes each -- are worth listening to, at least #10-17 or so... IMHO:
http://www.healtheo360.com/stories/chapter-10-cyndi-lauper-and-cfs/#.UmyJeqWl10B
@dannybexFits what I was suggesting earlier, and more importantly, what others have found. My laymen's interpretation is that perhaps a virus or viruses, etc., may have been part of the picture, but the 'outrageous' overtraining (which screws up/suppresses proper immune function), plus inhaling all the toxic fumes from the cleaning supplies, combined with the mold, standing water, etc., may have been the straws the finally broke the camel's back. Not to mention writing three thesis papers…!!!
Here's one of several studies that talks about exercise and immune function:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12696983
They definitely can and do. But they typically flee the ME/CFS community because a majority often tend to become suspicious that they were ever sick, or "really" sick. That happened in our local group with the woman who was ill for 16 years and bedridden for two of those years -- she actually got very nasty emails backchannel -- just bizarre. I'll be fifty-gulp-six in a month, so I'm in the same boat.
Yup, there's a lot of emotions, and a lot of understandable anger. But anger (which increases stress hormones) gets in the way of healing every time. And just because others have been sick longer, or recovered in different ways, or said they had to avoid this or that before they got well and you'll have to do the same thing -- doesn't mean you will need to do so. We're all different.
Howard Bloom, who will be one of the patients featured in the "Canary in a Coal" mine talks about the mind-body connection, how suggestible we can be without knowing it, and also how everyone is different -- and also how (most) doctors are worthless (he's a little more blunt). But this series of interviews -- about 7 minutes each -- are worth listening to, at least #10-17 or so... IMHO:
http://www.healtheo360.com/stories/chapter-10-cyndi-lauper-and-cfs/#.UmyJeqWl10B
And, since many newer members don't realize that long blocks of text present problems for many members, the volunteer forum staff will break up long paragraphs and notify the poster that this is a problem for many here.
Sushi
SickOfSickness
Oh yeah, this is CFS.
I did have adrenal fatigue and believe I had parasites (after many cleanses, stopped seeing weird things in toilet).
I have no clue what 'remissed' me but did feel a big turn after dealing w methylation issues.
thanks for your reply.
Sure!Hi can I ask how you did the flushes for the parasites? Thank you
Thought I'd post a link here to a story by an Australian woman who recovered from CFS. She's a very good writer who writes eloquently about he realities of ME/CFS, and her own spirituality. Here's a brief sentence from her story: --- "Restorative yoga, meditation, relaxation and my spirituality became a lifeline during the intense, raw, fragile and very real healing journey with CFS over the last 3 years. "
Kates Story
@justy, thank you for using some of your energy to write this out. It's exactly what I'm looking for: stories, details, & past-present perspective. I hope writing it out let you gain something, as well, whether now, or in the future. And I'm crossing my fingers you get back to the plateau of mildly affected you once had.HI Overtrain, so glad to hear of your great improvements and recovery. The anecdotal evidence is that if you are going to make a recovery it is likely to be in the first two to three years. Perhaps this is backed up by Lipkins findings that he saw a difference in the cohort ill less than three years compared to the longer term ill.
I will tell you something of my own experience. Not to bring anyone down at all, but to let you know how it has happened for me.
I had a long remission in the past - considered myself completely cured and i didnt do anyhting special to get there, except sleep an awful lot and have lots of gentle massages and hot baths. Maybe i moved toxins out this way, i dont think i will ever really know. I was 24 when i first got sick and was very very ill for the first 18 months and then started to gradually improve. I was at times bedbound and could barely walk and was in constant pain and had endless respiratory tract infections. By the age of 28 i was living a normal life, exercising (quite a lot, swimming, cycling, walking) i got married and had two more children, lived on the other side of the world and then moved back. Brought a house and did it up, settled into being a full time mum to 4 children doing voluntary work at the same time and running healing courses.
During this time i was very well when pregnant and breastfeeding, but the rest of the time i now see i was not 100% well - my stamina was not great and i had real problems increasing fitness. I still had a lot of infections so ended up taking steroids for quite a while. I went to the doctors a lot with varying weird problems, but essentailly i was ok. The doctors never found anyhting wrong and presumed i was depressed (i wasnt)
I told people i had fully recovered from M.E. I couldnt understand why others didnt recover also - after all i did. To be honest i didnt want to dwell on those awful years and turned my back on it all and tried to forget about it.
five years ago i caught measles from one of my kids, and then developed pneumonia, then pleurisy. This was after two extremely stressful years of building a house in a new part of the country and my husband working away from home all week and only coming back at weekeknds i was also working two days a week as a gardener doing very physically demanding work. I had started noticing that my ability to handle stress was becoming impaired and it was harder and harder to cope - i felt exhausted all the time. Determined not to be ill again i pushed through - thinking i just neeeded to get fitter ( a state that had aluded me for years) Then i had to have minor surgery - supposed to be back to normal the next day with no heavy lifting and i crashed hard and couldnt get out of bed for two weeks.
I then became extremely ill with severe M.E. It was considerably worse than the first time and has lasted for much longer - although i am now on a very slow recovery curve. I am still very ill though and depsite feeling much better than i did at my worst 5 years ago when i couldnt speak to my children or share a meal with my family and couldnt dress myself some days i know dont know if i will ever recover.
I am mainly housebound and have to use a wheelchair for 'walks' and trips out. I rarely drive myself and have no independance. I now realise, looking back that i was still ill with M.E in the intervening years but only very mildly. I put way too much stress and strain on myself, not knowing that this could be the consequence for PWME. My personal opinion is that remission, rather than recovery is what people are achieving - and that is great. I would happily go back to the only mildly affected if i could and am hoping to get there. Like Dr Bell has seen, many of his patients thought they were recovered when infact they have just improved some and then changed their expectations.
I do wonder if some people who bounce back quickly (i mean in the first couple of years) are recovered compeletley, and i really do hope they are, but my own experience shows that whilst you shouldnt be worrying about it all the time, being very careful is important. If i do get back inot a good remission i am worried that i will become uptight and paranoid. After all this illness takes so much away then when we feel well we just want to have it all!
Take care and all the best.
please excuse typos - this has taken it out of me and i dont have the energy to go back over it and change them all.
Justy.