The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
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Effect of SAMe on blood pressure

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi

    I have some questions about SAMe.
    Considering the methylation cycle (http://s2.postimage.org/9ujind58p/Methylation.png),
    SAMe increases homocysteine and B12,B6,folate will help decrease the homocysteine,hence balancing the cycle. I have experienced increase in blood pressure after taking SAMe. Can this be because of the increased homocysteine, and probably intake of B6,B12,folate will help?

    Please share your views and experiences.
    Thanks.
     
  2. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I don't know if this is what's going on in your case, SAMe stimulates the BHMT pathway which could cause an increase in norepinephrine. Norepinephrine can raise blood pressure. I'm pretty sure methylation can also cause high blood pressure (at least initially).
     
  3. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hmm..maybe. I was just pondering on the probable causes of my abnormal blood pressure. I get headaches too. I thought it's maybe because of SAMe. When I start thinking about it, it seems unlikely. But still always good to know others' experiences.
     
  4. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Someone was saying too much P5P raised his norepinephrine so if that is whats causing high bp then more B6 might not be good. Also, B6, B12, and folate will increase methylation. Also, low potassium from methylation can cause high blood pressure.
     
  5. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    I vote for the possibility above that I bolded. methylation has no effect that I have ever observed on my blood pressure but my blood pressure is so high (w/o my treatments) that I would never notice a small effect. If the top number of your b.p. is > 120 it means you are low in potassium. If your top number is <=140 then you are only a little low (I use 500mg to correct that). A banana is 333mg so just an extra banana or, even better, a serving of cantalope (which is much higher in potassium).

    Triff
     
  6. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I'm not taking B12. Just SAMe. It has been prescribed to me. Consuming only SAMe wouldn't lower potassium,would it?
     
  7. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Are you not taking folate either?
     
  8. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    arx

    It seems too much SAMe could cause overmethylation and overmethylation can cause excitoxicity symptoms even if potassium isn't low. This from dbkita:
    Overmethylation is a very,very real thing. It is basic biochemistry. People focus on methylation via the cycle, but in fact methylation via SAMe (mostly) is a huge regulator of gene expression, even silencing certain genes. Too much methylation can have HUGE effects on the body. Period. Anything to the contrary is just ... wrong.

    That being said overmethylation is NOT generally the province of b12 generally since even the methyl b12 variant has a very short half-life. Some people on these forums take massive doses to force it to high overpowering concentrations in the CNS to help them with fundamental neurological issues.

    On the other hand taking too much SAMe directly, too much TMG and for sure too much 5mthf or even folinic acid for many (or even folic acid for like 40% of the population) can overmethylate you. For those who lack the C677T SNP, riboflavin can also really spark methylation. Those with A1298C mutations are susceptible to overmethylation since the SAMe negative feedback mechanism on MTHFR via allosteric binding is inhibited (which can be really bad). P5p is also a contributor and can spark those with trans-sulfuration problems. B12 has much less impact on overmethylation (though mb12 will reduce melatonin and can cause some insomnia regardless of 'startup' effects).

    Personally I overmethylated myself for two years taking too much methylfolate, TMG, r5p, p5p and even some SAMe (the last of which made me understand clinically that I was hammering myself wrongly). And no it was no detox or start-up effects. That tune gets real old real fast for some of us. And it wasn't low potassium either since I got 10 grams per day in diet and supplements. It was simply over-methylation.
     
    vortex likes this.
  9. LampLights

    LampLights

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    Hi Lotus 97,

    How did you overcome and dealt with your own overmethylation? Can you please share some recommendations or suggestions to help out?

    I have a bad feeling that I've really overmethylated myself by taking too much Sam-e.

    This past week, I had to call 911 to get me to the ER this past Monday and then I ended up at the ER on Wednesday. The symptoms are where I can't drive and can't walk around much at all. I'm in pain and really struggling for answers (the doctors couldn't find anything wrong with me).

    Thank you so much!


     
  10. maple

    maple Senior Member

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    How do you know you over-methylated? What symptoms caused you to think this?
     
  11. LampLights

    LampLights

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    @maple Quoted below are some of my symptoms listed below from a thread that I posted about it.

    Also I was searching the internet and I came across a lady named Sandy Mintun in Illinois who had very similar symptoms (it's crazy how eerily similar it is) even to the point of only being able to sleep for a certain amount of hours. And that she, just like I, was taking 200 mg of Sam-e and then went up to 400 mg right before her symptoms suddenly came upon her.

    I emailed her hoping that she successfully healed from it so she might share what helped her but I noticed her post was almost 8 years ago. Fingers crossed that she replies back.

    Here's Sandy's post of her symptoms on http://www.depressionblog.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=27

    Here are my symptoms: quoted from https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...-sam-e-went-to-the-er-same.61076/#post-993461
     
  12. LampLights

    LampLights

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    @maple I’m thinking I have Serotonin Syndrome. I remember one of the EMTs saying he suspects I was having serotonin Syndrome as he was taking me to the hospital. The only thing was my body temp was normal on their thermometer but everything else fits the description. But right before that I had bags of ice from the freezer all over my bare upper body because I felt so hot, almost burning up, and and was shaking. I could only feel some relief breathing in the cold freezer air.

    The ER doctors asked about Sam-e but didn’t go into it. The EMT said that the Sam-e produces serotonin and the high amount of Benadryl I was taking was keeping the excess serotonin inside my brain and my body.
     
  13. LampLights

    LampLights

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    Edit: The ER doctors asked about Sam-e but they didn’t want to go into it except just asking what it was.
     
  14. maple

    maple Senior Member

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    @LampLights ... thanks for the info... in case relevant... Benadryl makes me wired.
     

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