Professor & patients' paper on the solvable biological challenge of ME/CFS: reader-friendly version
Simon McGrath provides a patient-friendly version of a peer-reviewed paper which highlights some of the most promising biomedical research on ME/CFS ...
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Circadian Rhythm Shift

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by Plum, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

    Problem: Going to bed later and later because I'm not tired/can't sleep.
    Currently getting to sleep around 2am. But very tired around 8-9pm. If I do sleep at 8-9pm I will only nap and then be awake for even longer before proper bed time.

    Why is my circadian rhythm shifting? This has been happening for 1-2 years now and I hate it. I've had ME for 6 years. Severely for the last 3.

    I sleep well for 3-4 hours then have to get up to pee. And then sleep in 1.5-2hr shifts from there due to nocturia of unknown cause. So it often takes me 9 hours in bed to get 7 hours actual sleep.

    I have checked my blood sugar and it's good. I make sure I'm not hungry when I go to bed. The room is the right temperature. I read before bed. My room is really dark. I go outdoors in the day to get decent day light. I'm not a fan of drugs and would prefer to get to the root cause if anyone has any ideas?!

    I do have severe adrenal fatigue that no amount of supplements has helped!
    MastBCrazy and barbc56 like this.
  2. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    I have seen this so many times. I see it after about year three in many ME patients, and in probably the most patients after about year ten. Nobody knows why it happens. Its a brain thing most likely, possibly to do with autonomic function and sleep. You can fight it, or you can go with it, or you can use drugs to help. Some have found that using sleeping meds but switching meds every week, say for three meds used in a three week cycle. Heapsreal, someone who used to be on this forum, had a lot to say about that. Some use melatonin but it does not work for all.

    Are you working part time or have other timed commitments? If you have then you need to struggle with it, but if you don't then its less of a problem.

    This might be the beginning of non-24 sleep disorder. You might like to look into that.
    barbc56, MeSci and Plum like this.
  3. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem All Good Things Must Come to an End

    Did Heapsreal recover or did he just move on?
    heapsreal likes this.
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    He moved on.
    heapsreal and Little Bluestem like this.
  5. *GG*

    *GG* senior member

    Concord, NH
    Ah, @heapsreal made some really good posts, hope he is ok and comes back when he can!

  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    australia (brisbane)
    Just watch occasionally from a distance now.
  7. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    I did see some articles about the inflammatory cytokines IL-6 and TNF-alpha being connected to the circadian rhythm (body clock):

    Since abnormalities in IL-6 and TNF-alpha (among other cytokines) have been found in ME/CFS, these cytokines could be the basis of the messed up circadian rhythm in ME/CFS.

    There are lots of supplements that can inhibit IL-6 and TNF-alpha, and one idea I had was taking an inhibitor at the right time of day or night, so that it would act to normalize the circadian rhythm.

    For example, if IL-6 is a putative 'sleep factor', then taking IL-6 inhibitors from morning up to early evening, but then stopping as you get closer to bedtime, might ensure that you only get the sleep inducing IL-6 appearing at bedtime. Some IL-6 inhibitors are listed in this post.
    Plum likes this.

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