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Blood test and vitamin status

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by tolo, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. tolo



    This whole methylation thing is new to me and I'm trying to figure out if I should look into it more closely. Went and had some blood drawn last week and now I have a few newbie questions.

    My hemoglobin is 173. From what I've read this number is also an indicator of your red blood cell count; which in my case would be high.

    I don't smoke, exercise extensivly or live on a mountain top, by the way.

    So if my hemoglobin is high does this automatically mean my RBC count will be high?

    I gather B12 and B9 are needed to produce RBC's. If my red blood cell count is high, does this exclude the possibility of low B12 and B9 levels?

    Furthermore, my ESR was at 2, which I guess also points to high RBC count, and my Potassium levels was at 3.8, which I feel is a litte low. I've read potassium can drop when starting a methylation protocol but can ”natural” overmethylation also depress potassium?

    Thanks in advance
  2. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

    Ventura, CA
    Folate is the one that is more likely to raise blood cells in cases of folate/b12 deficiency. Actually supplementing folate with b12 deficiency is dangerous as it will cover it over as normal blood levels while the b12 gets worse. B12 and Folate are dependent on each other for the creation of new cells though.

    Have you started a methylation protocol yet? 3.8 is not too bad, especially if you are on a methylation protocol. Being on a methylation protocol though you should always strive to keep your levels at least to 4.3.

    The most common cause of potassium loss is actually magnesium deficiency, also keep in mind about 98% of the western population never reaches the RDV of potassium each day through normal diet. The RDV is 4,000mg which I think is absurdly high, especially to attain from natural diet alone.. So on top of possibly being deficient in magnesium unless you are scarfing down banana's, avacodos, yams, potatos, tomatoes, carrots, coconut water and other high potassium foods all day it is likely you are also not hitting the RDV value for potassium.

    There are also some people with a natural genetic mutation which triggers excessive potassium loss through urine, a 23andMe test is worth taking and investigating results before starting any Methylation protocol.

    You could be a person that may need P5P because you cannot properly convert the inactive form, or maybe need to clear out excessive sulfates, lack of ability to convert folinic acid sources, all kinds of things can go into play here based on your comt results..

    If you use a methylation protocol also be sure to cover at least the RDV for the rest of the B vitamins, ideally a b complex that does not contain folic acid, which is a known methyl trap.

    Thorne research sells a good one, as well as holistic health all in one.

    People with CFS, or other chronic illness, and methylation issues do not usually show too abnormal levels on blood test alone, sometimes a few things can stick out like the size of red blood cells, homocystiene levels, and methionine levels, these are important to find out as there are two separate approaches to bring levels to a stable equilibrium.

    Also always have Niacin on hand just in case you overmethylate and need to take out those excess methyl groups!
    NK17 likes this.
  3. tolo


    Thanks for the reply, Martial.

    So, a deficiency of folate/b12 would cause an increase in RBC?

    This started with me coming across a list of symptoms for undermethylation and it caught my eye because I recognized so many of them. I was just about to place an order for a methylation protocol when I got the blood results from my test sent home.

    What I'm reading is that the classic symptom of folate/b12 is anemia or a RBC insufficiency. Seeing as the one marker I do have regarding this, hemoglobin, is at the top of the range, I'm trying to find out if that can rule out a folate/b12 problem.

    Basically I'm wondering if a high hemoglobin level always correlates with a high RBC count, and if that automatically means I have enough folate/b12?

    Not on any methylation supplements yet. For the record I don't have CFS but my overall health and energy levels have been on a steady decline for the last 3-4 years, so I'm trying to prevent any progression.

    I agree 3.8 isn't bad but from what I've read 4.5 is a good number to shoot for. That's why I was curious if a person that has a naturally fast methylation could be driving his K levels down.
    I thought: high RBC = high folate/b12 = overmethylation = low K. But it definitely isn't that easy i've learned.

    I read magnesium is important for potassium, just like you said, so the only thing I'm taking as of a few days ago is Mg-glycinate and I'm eating more potassium rich foods. The twitches I used to get frequently in my quads and arms have subsided, so that's good.

    I have not had any 23andme testing done yet as I'm still in grad school and eventhough $99 isn't that much of a deal, honestly I'd rather spend it on a proper diet at this point. Cutting out the processed foods and fast foods I've been living on my whole life has really helped.

    I'm going to get a complete blood test probably next week. I'll see if I can get my doctor to throw in a folate/b12 and maybe a homocysteine test as well, although I doubt it. She took one look at the electrolyte and hemoglobin levels and basically said everything looks great, off you go..

    Also I did take a Thorne B-complex some time ago and if I remember correctly it made me feel a bit off, so i stopped after a few days.

    Edit: They did also check TSH and T4. Those also "looked great" but I'll have a look for myself next week
  4. mgd1972


    I just had some blood work done and my doctor, of course, wants me to cut back on b12 and folate supps.

    B12 was 1475
    Folate more than 3000

    I'm assuming this is to be expected and I should continue the protocol?

    Also, my phosphorous was a bit high so she's retesting it and checking parathyroid hormone. Anyone had high phosphorous?
  5. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

    NSW Australia
    What is the normal range for the test you had? I'm guessing your result is not in gm/dL where the normal range for males is usually around 13.8 - 17.2gm/dL. If as I expect your result translates to 17.3gm/dL that is not really that high. A falsely high hemoglobin can be caused by dehydration (which in our illness we are often bordering on with low blood volume)

    A high hemoglobin can point to a high RBC count but it is not necessarily so. It can mean more hemoglobin per cell. One of the effects of folate/B12 deficiency is an increase in size of the individual red blood cells. You would need a separate test to determine that.

    I don't know how you associate the ESR with RBC count, it is a measure of how long it takes red blood cells to settle at the bottom of a sample of serum. It is a marker of inflammation because there are more pro-sedimentation factors in blood when there is inflammation.
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2014

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