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Alternative to peanut butter?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by outdamnspot, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    I've made a couple posts recently about worsening food intolerances and trying to cut out triggers. I'm on keto and can't eat dairy, gluten, salicylates, Omega 6 etc.

    Oddly, I find some foods can trigger me at different points. For example, I was doing better once I cut out MCT oil (which seemed to worsen gut issues), and that let me tolerate olive oil. I ran out and bought a new bottle (same brand, the only difference was it was 'robust' flavor as opposed to light) and crashed severely the next day.

    Anyway, now I'm down to meat, fish, chicken, eggs, green salad, almond milk w/olive oil and peanut butter. At points I abstain from Olive oil, peanut butter becomes my only fat source. It doesn't trigger an obvious crash like canola oil but I did learn recently it's high in omega 6 (even though I read this may be less problematic consuming it as a whole food).

    To see if I can get an improvement I wanted to try an alternative. My cognitive issues are bad right now so apologies for asking here. I tried to Google a little and it seems cashew nut spread would be low in salicylates. I couldn't see anything comparing the omega 6 quantity or ratio to peanut butter however. Could it be a safer alternative? Almonds would be too high in salicylates. Just curious what you might think @alex3619

    Thanks for any help
     
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  2. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I suspect cashew nut butter is probably a good source, given that cashews are a high monunsaturated nut. I knew this stuff twenty years ago, but have not checked lately. Unless there are additives (beware of added oils like canola) the butter should follow the same fat profile as cashews. I think I suggested cashew oil before, but there might be issues with this as heat processed is not good, and all cashews, ALL, are at least partly cooked. This is because raw cashews are poisonous, or at least the shell is, and they are part cooked to remove that shell. So there is no such thing as a raw cashew.

    Macadamia nuts however are very high monounsaturated, but high in salicylates.

    It might be that cashew nut butter is a a good middle ground, but I am not sure there is any way to be sure without trying them. I will say I think that too much of it is a bad idea.

    How do you tolerate cream, cheese and dairy in general? Too much of this is bad too, but maybe its a better idea to mix cashew and cream in the diet, rather than one or the other?

    This is an area with multiple contraindicated factors. I am not sure any research will help. Personal testing for tolerance might be necessary, and retesting over time.

    The basic issue is, I suspect, that keto diets and low salicylate diets are not very compatible. So this is pioneering work. If you can get answers you might even be able to publish an article on this somewhere.
     
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  3. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    Haha I laughed at your last paragraph. Well maybe something good will come from this after all ;) life was certainly a lot easier when I could eat more foods a year ago.

    Unfortunately dairy is a big no-no for me and small amounts will trigger a significant crash.

    With your caveat against too much of the cashew nut spread being problematic, does that pertain to cashews in particular? Right now I consume 2-3 tablespoons of peanut butter before bed.
     
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I was worried about this. One possibility is a reaction to arachidonic acid, which seems to be common in salicylate sensitive people. Most meat and dairy fats, and especially organ meats, are high in arachidonic acid. I once ate at a place that used rendered animal fat for its takeout food. I did not know this. Shortly after I ate their food, when I got home, I collapsed to the floor for six hours, in intense pain.

    What I think happens is that many with salicylate intolerance have high usage of arachidonic acid when its available, so a sudden intake will cause all of it to be metabolised immediately into mostly inflammatory eicosanoids. In animal studies too much arachidonic acid is fatal, and its probably a huge factor in death from alcohol poisoning, as alcohol induces a release of free arachidonic acid, and drugs that block this greatly improve survival in alcohol poisoning.
     
  5. ChrisD

    ChrisD Senior Member

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    @outdamnspot I have been on a similar dietary journey; first going Paleo, then Keto, then Low fodmap/histamine/oxalate Keto and now teetering on Carnivore diet days. The more I abstain from potentially inflammatory foods and then add them back in, I notice how they were causing symptoms.

    My body seems to give a warning sign in the form of and itchy scalp and dandruff! Whenever I have something inflammatory such as this weekend when I had Mushrooms, Beans and Coconut and this dry skin instantly comes back within about 20 minutes and that is followed by ME symptoms. I also had to cut out MCT even though it was dubbed ideal for Keto and it was helping me get into Ketosis.

    I undoubtedly feel best on just meat and particularly beef but it is an expensive way of eating so economically I add in some low fodmap veg and salads to bulk out my meals. Somehow I seem to do okay with Dairy so I can incorporate some cheese and cream for fats, but I have noticed that I only get on with a few particular types of yogurt.

    ANYWAY, as for nut butters I have also tried working through them. Due to peanut butter being a legume and potentially inflammatory, I tried all the other like Almond butter, Cashew butter, Hazelnut and so on but they all led to these skin problems and worsening fatigue symptoms. So in the end I have reverted to Peanut butter for snacks and 'desserts' and basically follow a very similar diet to your current one now.
     
  6. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    @ChrisD thanks for your input. It sounds like we're dealing with a similar issue re: diet. I think I'll stick to peanut butter for now, since it may not be the healthiest option but it doesn't seem to trigger me the way other inflammatory foods do.

    One other question, if you (or anyone else) may be able to help: do you know if consuming raw egg whites could potentially be more inflammatory than cooked eggs? I've never had an issue with eggs, even though my CFS doctor said a lot of her patients do, and I eat 8 (scrambled) a day. I saw a carton of raw egg whites at the supermarket a few days ago and figured it might be easier than cooking them, since my digestive system prefers liquids. I had it 2 days ago and seemed okay, and then again last night (with almond milk), and I'm in a debilitating crash today. I immediately assumed it was the milk because I am normally okay with cooked eggs, but I'm wondering if the raw eggs could be the culprit.
     
  7. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Raw eggs destroy biotin, and would probably benefit from biotin supplements and occasional blood tests. Also sometimes eggs get contaminated, even with salmonella, and this poses risks from infection. Cooked egg whites are much safer, even if all you do is put them in a safe bowl and microwave the egg whites.

    I understand the need for simple food, most meals for me are no more complex than sticking food on aluminium foil in the oven and setting the timer. Better meals wait until I have a better day.
     
  8. Seven (formerly lnester7)

    Seven (formerly lnester7) Seven

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    This food intolerance only gets worst, I did a 3 day bone broth then rotation diet and I got out of it, But I learn my lesson and do not repeat food groups too often .
    Cashew butter, PB, Almond butter.. All nuts have butter this days., Just see which are on the same food groups and rotate the food groups every 4 days to avoid developing new intolerance.
     
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  9. ChrisD

    ChrisD Senior Member

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    I think as far as eggs are concerned; the yolks are extremely beneficial for us with a plethora of fantastic nutrients, and while the whites contain healthy levels of protein and I think Choline (also great for ME/CFS), they are considered to be rather inflammatory by a number of practitioners. I have been trying to source a bottle of Raw egg yolks.
     
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  10. RebeccaRe

    RebeccaRe Moose Enthusiast

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    What about sunflower seed butter? I know nothing about the omega 6 and salycilates, but I do know that this is another popular alternative to nut butters. It's available in lots of stores because kids whose schools are nut-free still want to have a PB&J for lunch.
     
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  11. Wolfcub

    Wolfcub Senior Member

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    @outdamnspot
    I thought of pumpkin seeds, but find out now that they are classed as "moderate" among salicylate-containing foods. They are high in Omega-3 rather than Omega-6 and also contain calcium, vitamin A, iron, selenium, magnesium, B vitamins etc But they might not be okay for you....

    Here's a list of salicylate-containing foods. Scroll down for seeds and nuts:
    https://atpscience.com/salicylate-foods-sensitivity-intolerances-and-food-list/

    Going by that list, Cashews seem to contain "negligible" amount.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  12. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    There's pea butter, invented by an Albertan, so I should promote it. :) I have no idea about salicylate content.
     
  13. Wonkmonk

    Wonkmonk Senior Member

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    Also when you use it for cooking only?

    Olive oil with stronger flavor is probably higher in Oleuropein, but that compound is highly volatile even at modest temperatures (>60 Celsius).

    You could try heating the oil a bit, so that the kitchen smells like cooking olive oil (that's the oleuropein and other volatile compounds going into the air), the flavor should then be gone.

    If the oil used for cooking doesn't make you crash, it is probably those volatile compounds that are responsible.
     
  14. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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    Hi, it is hard to know what to do a bout food intolerances. My path when I have been thinking clearly enough to follow it has been to try to reduce intestinal permeability so the immune system does not get to "see" a food to react to it.

    If you are up to it I found this video useful

    If not, it seems best to avoid acellular carbohydrates (such as roller milled flours and the thickeners and emulsifiers in many packaged foods); to avoid things that are known to increase permeability like those grains that contain gliadins (wheat, oats, rye, barley and triticale) and chillies and so on; and to take things that reduce permeability such as zinc and tea catechins, curcumin and quercetin.

    there is a list here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4670985/
     
  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Peanuts, cashews and almonds all contain small amounts of toxins. Its best not to over-rely on them. However only the peanut toxin is cumulative, the others depend on what you eat that day and are metabolised (they are cyanide related, whereas peanut toxin is mold related).

    Salicylates are a very specific food intolerance, and the main mechanism has been known since 1984. Rotation is not important. What is important is daily dosage, from any and all sources. Under the tolerated threshold you can be mostly symptom free.
     
  16. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    That's really interesting, thank you. I thought it would be a stretch that there would be any difference between the light and robust oils, since I assumed it's all just made from olives. I drink the oil raw in almond milk, but don't tend to cook with it. I bought another bottle of the 'lght', so may cautiously experiment with it again. But when I was cooking with heavily flavored olive oil last year, I didn't notice any issues.
     
  17. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    I don't eat a lot of salicylates so it seems like, as long as I don't eat other inflammatory foods, I can tolerate some (e.g. I still have 1tsp of coconut oil in my coffee). I have been looking for an Omega 3 source, so may get some pumpkin seeds; thanks for the suggestion.
     
  18. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    I've been scared to experiment with supplements since growing more unwell; however, there is a probiotic that I had a lot of success with in the past -- symbioflor 2, which supposedly reduces intestinal permeability. I have a bottle and have thought about trying it again.
     
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  19. jesse's mom

    jesse's mom Senior Member

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    @Richard7 , I got through the video, good information that is on the same lines that I have been reading.
     
  20. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    mmm I eat sunflower seed butter without sugar from Trader Joe every day---love it--tastes like peanut butter to me---you can get it with sugar too---some brands i dont like
     

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