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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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  1. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    I believe that everything is alright with the dosing. Keep those proportions. They could serve as an example for some people willing to try this out. You can up the ALA a bit (to 500 mg), not to 2000 mg (ALA potentiates DCA, so you can get some side effects if you overdo it).
  2. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    Regarding the question regarding diispropylene dichloroacetate, it seems it was the older version of DCA? 40 or 50 years ago they used diispropylene dichloroacetate for all the research. 20 or 10 years ago they moved to Sodium dichloroacetate for some reasons. I am not sure why but I believe...
  3. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    @Chris, yes, other intermediate dosing schedules are also fully available and acceptable, I believe they chose 5 days on, 2 days off as a main way to take DCA because it's easier to remember that you take this on Monday - Friday and have a break on Saturday and Sunday. This is crucial and this...
  4. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    Oh, and also - last week they published a new article on DCA and ME/CFS. I view it as a follow up and a broader version of the previous article. ME/CFS: Does the Flag Cover the Cargo? On the Pathogenesis and Treatment of an Enigmatic Disease
  5. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    @Chris. All I understand so far is that DCA metabolism is dependent on two things - age (the younger, the faster the clearence - as with a wast majority of the drugs) and the genotype (it appears that there are 3 or 4 variatons of the enzyme GST). DCA metabolism happens in the liver where gama S...
  6. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    Dan, I have read a lot of literature related to possible DCA adverse reactions, but, unfortunately, I have never seen any reports that DCA could cause blood changes in animals or in humans besides slight liver enzyme elavation (which is rare and could happen if one takes high doses of DCA for a...
  7. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    Thanks for posting this scheme. When they were researching Dichloroacetate for Congenital lactic acidosis, PW Stacpoole has performed a study which stated that 6,5 mg/kg of DCA is atoxic on daily use. However, such a dose is so small, you might risk experiencing no swift benefit at all and it...
  8. Daniel E.

    Frustrated at misconceptions towards Insomnia

    @Learner1 , how do you personally feel about 5-HTP? Does it help ? How long does it take for the sleep to get better when you take it ?
  9. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    @Learner1 has a good reason to worry about DCA acting on mitochondria health, however, this is unavoidable. Cancer and ME/CFS (according to Naviaux) are very closely related to mitochondrial mechanisms. We must keep in mind that alcohol, cigs, sunlight, antiviral medications (such as...
  10. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    Haha, my man. Glad it helped you, mate. Regarding the scientific evidence, yes. I only know one legit article on that subject: http://exp-oncology.com.ua/article/8522 Damn. I've read it more closely and it seems that they're talking about 2 weeks on, 1 week off DCA which wouldn't be such a...
  11. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    That's why this discovery needs the attention of people like Ron Davis. Afaik, he has the resources and materials to find out these answers on a molecular level. The original study has given just a brief overview how this whole thing could work and tbh it looks like it all can be tested...
  12. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    As far as I know DCA has been patented by various scientists dozens of times and it didin't have any restrictions or problems for other scientists or people for its usage. (check the internet) Patents also give some tax reductions and other bonuses in some countries if one decides to make it in...
  13. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    Yes. If you examine Ron Davis and Naviaux research you will see that they somehow support the idea that some of the ME/CSF cases could be related to mitochondrial disfunction and Sodium dichloroacetate mainly affects the mitochondria. It sort of "revives" them and enables adequate energy...
  14. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    J.G. afaik know patents don't block others from conducting research on diseases. Tbh, patents have much smaller weight nowadays then they used to (there are many ways to "dodge" them). Anyone willing to test this DCA for ME/CFS is welcome to supplement more research of their own. The trial is...
  15. Daniel E.

    Waking every hour for weeks...

    I'm sorry for such a strange question, but how does vacations affect your sleep ? I myself had about 10 years of bad luck with sleep since my teenage years, however, I always have a good rest at nights when I am traveling.
  16. Daniel E.

    Insomnia ideas?

    This is a surprising way to improve sleep. Never heard about it before. Might even give it a try, since melatonin helps me fall asleep faster, but makes me wake up in the middle of night. Have you experienced any side effects from using LDN ? Isn't there any addiction associated with it ...
  17. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    I would like someone to pm me the contacts of Prof. Ronald Davis. Could someone pm me his email ? I've tried his university e-mail and got no luck. I've got a serious question regarding his previous findings with ME/CFS that could be important. Thanks in advance.
  18. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    I've heard that some of the DCA vendors get their powder from manufacturers in China. Maybe that could be the reason why those impurities cause fatigue ? @debored13, I have read all the information you had posted regarding the physiology explained by Ray Peat and I'm sorry to say that I don't...
  19. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    It's best to take Vitamin B1 before breakfast and lunch (afaik they don't recommend taking it before night because it could stimulate a little bit, wake you up and make falling asleep harder). Take 50 mg 2x daily. Alpha Lipoic Acid potentiates the effect of DCA (so that even 500 mg DCA doses...
  20. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    Could be something else, little doses like this rarely exhibit any effects in such short period of time. Do you take Vitamin B1, Alpha Lipoic Acid, L-Carnitine and Q10 ?
  21. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    Recently I've read some research related to this question. @nanonug ,while there study above mentions interesting findings and concludes that some individuals metabolize DCA faster than others and thus doses should vary, there are some other examples of widely prescribed medications that also...
  22. Daniel E.

    Niacin for sleep

    I've been taking melatonin before sleep somedays, but it causes me to wake up at the middle of the night and have a problem falling back to sleep. @Mary, have you experienced something like this from niacin ?
  23. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    You can skip L-Carnitine. It's the least important supplement for avoiding side effects from DCA. The most important is Vitamin B1 (benfotiamine). I'd like to remind people that 400 mg of DCA daily is a really small dose compared to 2000 mg of DCA that people take from other situations. In...
  24. Daniel E.

    can't tolerate Valtrex after several tries -- what do I do?

    Valtrex is Valacyclovyr, is cheaper, however has more side effects. Zovirax is Acyclovyr, is more expensive, has less side effects. I believe both of them are used for different situations. Etc. the most common use of Acyclovyr is the need to fight the Herpes simplex virus (etc cold sores...
  25. Daniel E.

    Personalized Dosing of Dichloroacetate Using GSTZ1 Clinical Genotyping Assay

    Really interesting findings. Thanks for sharing, @nanonug
  26. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    @msf, be careful with the dosing. Try using schedules like 5 days on or 2 days off or 2 weeks on, 1 week off (to let the DCA flush out) for quantities over 1000 mg daily. People in the pilot trial have used 400 mg of DCA daily for 9 months afaik. Are you taking Vitamin b1, alpha lipoic acid or...
  27. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    That's a relatively short time, 10 days, @raghav. I've contacted a couple of people who are researching this subject regarding DCA and ME/CFS and the result varies. Some people start feeling an improvement in just 3 days, some feel improvement in 3 weeks, in some cases - people start feeling...
  28. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    @Learner1, I've read all the attachments regarding FDA and DCA. Hmmm... These look like they were discussing the possibility of making DCA available for cancer treatment in alternative medicine settings. Apparently, there are too little science papers on if it really could be a better...
  29. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    I think it is all good that they adjusted the recipe mid trial, I bet they just found other supplements that could help the whole experience. Regarding the quote, I think study claims that you could divide people with ME/CFS in to two categories: Category I. People who have ME/CFS and no other...
  30. Daniel E.

    Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

    Woke up this morning and gave it a second thought. I believe that this could be something more in the future. We just have to wait. I've read the study the second time and it looks that this theoretically could improve the being of at least a half of people with ME/CFS. It depends on this...