is LCF necessary?

[Aerose91]

I know a lot of people (myself included) get very revved up from LCF in the beginning but I haven't seen a lot of people who ultimately saw much result from it. I know Freddd has it as part of his deadlock quartet but is it always necessary? If not as a principal nutrient, if as a needed cofactor?

 

[ahmo]

Sorry I can't give you a more definitive answer. LCF. Here's something Fred had to say about it:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-stages-of-methylation-and- healing.21725/

LCF, if it is what methylation is deadlocked on, will cause low potassium and donut hole paradoxical folate deficiency/insufficiency which is usually called ”detox“ just as glutathione detox equals paradoxical folate deficiency and so does NAC ”detox“. Of everything I have seen called detox, better than 9 out of 10 times it resolves with potassium and/or Methylfolate. ”Detox“ has so many meanings it is meaningless. The docs immediately go deaf when they hear that word and won’t hear a thing you said before or after.

So let’s consider what carnitine does. First, some people have to have LCF, about 90% of us here with these for whom it makes a difference. About 10% have to have ALCAR. It transports fats to mitochondria. It, by demonstration on me and others, causes proliferation of mitochondria in conjunction with the other 3 items. It causes muscles to grow back. It causes osteoblast proliferation strengthening bone. It cause neuroblast formation, encouraging neuronal healing and growth. These are essential to healing and causes demands on Methylfolate and potassium as it encourages new cells to grow as well as more mitochondrial density producing more ATP.

I started with a 500mg dose and had to be peeled off the ceiling. I was quite deficient. It was key in my taking off 85 pounds of water and healing all levels. A person who has no deficiency will have no obvious reaction. It was almost made a vitamin but wasn’t because some people can make enough of the right kinds. Even if they had it would have been ALCAR and most of us would be out in the cold anyway. I backed off to 128mg. After a few months I could increase to 250mgl, then a few more months 500mg. That turned out to have peak effect and 1000mg did nothing more so I backed off to 500. If a person has anxiety and is overly risk adverse they may have a specific type of hypothesized damage to the limbic system in the brain and then they have hyper responses to less than 1mg of LCF. Such folks might need to microtitrate starting at 100mcg with Jarrow liquid carnitine. It really has nothing at all to do with detox and everything to do with neuronal damage from deficiency and restarting damaged or inflamed nerves with ATP generation which also is needed for dopamine synthesis.

 

[Aerose91]

Thanks, ahmo, that does help. I'll keep moving forward but one thing that bothers me about all of Freddd's teachings is they all revolve around how something effected him personally. I feel that's never a good reason to imitate a protocol.

 

[ahmo]

Thanks, ahmo, that does help. I'll keep moving forward but one thing that bothers me about all of Freddd's teachings is they all revolve around how something effected him personally. I feel that's never a good reason to imitate a protocol.

Yes, the protocol was developed around what worked for Fred. But there are many others of us who have seen the same types of improvements. In a perfect world, we wouldn't be having to work things out for ourselves. Or, maybe this is, indeed, the perfect path.

Here's another comment re LCF reaction. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...c-back-to-square-one.35556/page-2#post-645086

 

[picante]

If I understand right, the carnitine/AdB12 combination is necessary for healing your nervous system. And the more deficient your CNS, the stronger your reaction (like Freddd's).

I haven't had any discernible reaction to LCF, positive or negative. I suspect I may be one of the 10% who benefit from ALCar, though, and that's what I usually take.

My NAT2 snps fit in with this finding:

“We identified an 'ultra-slow' acetylator phenotype based on combined *6A/*6A, *6A/*7B and *7B/*7B genotypes containing the homozygous minor alleles of C282T (rs1041983, *6A, *7B) and G590A (rs1799930, *6A).”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24221535

I keep wondering if perhaps the slow acetylator types might be one of the groups who benefit from supplementing acetyl groups. Any thoughts?

 

[Sherpa]

I don't need LCF for energy. MethylFolate + B12 + iodine and thyroid supporting nutrients has me up, going out, and at the gym and yoga studio. If I need a boost for a serious workout or something I'll take d-ribose.

My problems are different than Fredd's problems and Aerose91's problems - and my solution may be different.

 

[Johnmac]

I had huge tension & anxiety meltdowns from LCF, & had (on Fred's advice) to switch to liquid carnitine, which I can titrate up from low doses.

I haven't noticed effects from it, but they would be hard to discern, as I am taking the other 3 DQs simultaneously. Health is slowly improving from the protocol as a whole. The nice thing is that a rising tide lifts all boats: So everything improves at once (for me): Gut, mood, skin, cognition, etc.

Fred has tested his DQs on about 1,000 people, so his experience isn't limited to himself alone.