B12 and sleepiness? To take it at night?

[arx]

Hi,

Do you take B12 at night or in the day, or maybe divided doses?

For the sleepiness I experience with B12, I thought of the following factors, and want to know if you've "fixed" the sleepiness issue if you've faced it, or changed your B12 timings?

1. Melatonin production
2. Low potassium and/or folate
3. Co-factor deficiencies?
4. Is the induced sleepiness a sign of healing?

 

[Star-Anise]

@arx
I take B12 always during the day, as I find it energizing. It has only caused sleepiness for me when I was taking too much at once. For me, I found that my body reacts with increased fatigue when I push it too much too fast. I divide my dose into two times am/lunch. methyl-b12 1000mcg am, 500mcg lunch. Adenosyl B12: 2.5mg each time.
All the best,
S

 

[PeterPositive]

@arx:
Which B12 form are you taking? Methyl B12? Adenosyl-B12? Others?

I agree with Star-Anise, in general B12 is energizing, in particular Methyl B12 causes my attention and alertness to spike. I would never take it in the evening, it works as a couple of strong coffees, at least for me.

Adenosyl B12 is less strong on the nervous system. I think I've read methyl-B12 can cross the brain blood barrier, while adenosyl-B12 doesn't. See here: http://www.howweheal.com/vitaminb12.htm

cheers

 

[peggy-sue]

I take sublingual B12, (as cyanocobalmin) but only in the mornings. If I leave it too late and take it in the afternoon, I won't sleep.

 

[Star-Anise]

@arx
oh, p.s. I just remembered even my husband who has mild fatigue problems (no ME/CFS or any other chronic condition that we have identified - but I suspect some mild adrenal fatigue) when he takes his B12 too late, he definitely can have insomnia. I have gotten his genetic testing and he has COMT +/+ on all accounts so I have started him on Hydroxy-B12 - seems to be the best form he can tolerate without getting fatigue reaction during the day though. Adenosyl seems to be ok, but hydroxy is better. When he took adenosyl he got ++swollen lymph nodes within a week! Maybe type of B12 is a factor as well as suggested by @PeterPositive S

 

[peggy-sue]

I stopped taking it for a few months, I didn't mean to, it just kept on getting forgotten about until too late.

Well, the troubles I had!
My brain and body were going slowly downhill, my tongue went black and furry, I started getting oral thrush and the most awful sores in my mouth that simply would not heal. Mt dentist and I were getting very worried about my having oral cancer over Christmas. Fortunately, I managed to get an emergency cancellation appointment at the Dental Hospital (they were really worried too) and they decided it wasn't cancer.
My dentist had mentioned B12, so I started taking it again, immediately.

And my mouth started healing.

I will NOT be skipping my B12 again!
It's on my bedside table. When Michael wakes up to go to work, I shove a tab under my tongue - and go back to sleep.

I am also slowly getting better and better, brain and body.

 

[shah78]

Nobody cares about our problem Arx! LOL I've googled b12/ sleepiness many times and the results are similar to this post. Freddd came back with methylation/b12 increases the seratonin>melatonin conversion. So I'll go with answer a. as well. It sure works for me getting lots of nighttime sleep. It worked the first day I took a wopping 1mg of methyl b12. Slept an extra two hours for weeks. the effect are not as strong now, but I still get well over an hour more than pre b12. Daytime sleepiness is THE PROBLEM. I take my methylb12 at night. My remedy is to Jump into my 44 degree cold tub and then drive to the gym for my six minutes (Body by Science inspired -less is more)weight lifting session. Perhaps the lifting session uses up some/most of the extra b12 and I feel excellent till I go to sleep. Problem is I have CFS and can't go to the gymevery day. Duh! So on off days I take longer and extra cold baths. I'll keep lowering my mb12 and ab12 doses to try to avoid this problem. I'm down to 366 mcg of mb12 in the evening and 700mcg of ab12 every other day before the gym. I still find I enjoy almost 2000mg of Potasium/day. I'm getting a hell of a lot of methylation out of my wimpy dosages of b12. I'm planning to lower my b12 even further ...... Really, are arx and I the only ones? Step forward peolple and admit you're really wierd, and admit B12 puts you to sleep!

 

[peggy-sue]

No, it wakes me up. And given I don't sleep well anyway I won't take it at night.
And there is no way I could manage any gym session.
I struggle to hang the laundry up. That's my "weight-lifting".

 

[shah78]

Peggy, I feel blessed to be able to get to the gym six minutes a day every other day. I stay within that energy envelope. I was doing 55 minutes a month B.F. (before Freddd). With methylation I'm up to 96. I count them and limit them like I'm cutting down on cigaretttes. lol.....Long live Freddd.

 

[peggy-sue]

Who does your laundry and cooks and shops for you that you can spend precious energy doing stuff that doesn't get something done?
(I need a "wife".)

It's always lovely to hear about folk managing to do something good for themselves. Well done, shah78.

 

[shah78]

I'm a staight male. I don't do lot's of cleaning and laundy.!Iol. I spent one six year stretch and one three and a half year stretch away from the gym with the cfs. It was a real bummer.The Paleo diet brought me up to 55 minutes a month and Freddd brought me up to 96 a month.

 

[ahmo]

@peggy-sue, a few months ago I posted a question re recurrent blood blisters in my mouth. Freddd responded, suggesting this was one of the epithelial symptoms of low folate. This inspired me to finally overcome my fears of too much folate, and I began increasing by 100-200mcg every day or two. No more blood blisters. I'm now at 9.6mg folate, 10mg B12, 7.5 AdB12. My symptoms of low folate have been reduced to a few pimples on face and hairline. During the preceding year, unaware of the cause, I had a couple periods of severe scalp outbreak. Fixed it all by getting my folate levels up.

My sleep has normalized, for the first time in my life. I always tended toward insomnia. I now sleep "like a baby"! When I awaken, I go to toilet and immediately return to sleep. This has never been possible for me. And when I've had symptoms of excess folate, usually at bedtime, I've been able to pop a B12 under my gums and go to sleep. Amazing. And the symptoms are gone in the AM. Cheers, ahmo

 

[arx]

Nobody cares about our problem Arx! LOL I've googled b12/ sleepiness many times and the results are similar to this post. Freddd came back with methylation/b12 increases the seratonin>melatonin conversion. So I'll go with answer a. as well. It sure works for me getting lots of nighttime sleep. It worked the first day I took a wopping 1mg of methyl b12. Slept an extra two hours for weeks. the effect are not as strong now, but I still get well over an hour more than pre b12. Daytime sleepiness is THE PROBLEM. I take my methylb12 at night. My remedy is to Jump into my 44 degree cold tub and then drive to the gym for my six minutes (Body by Science inspired -less is more)weight lifting session. Perhaps the lifting session uses up some/most of the extra b12 and I feel excellent till I go to sleep. Problem is I have CFS and can't go to the gymevery day. Duh! So on off days I take longer and extra cold baths. I'll keep lowering my mb12 and ab12 doses to try to avoid this problem. I'm down to 366 mcg of mb12 in the evening and 700mcg of ab12 every other day before the gym. I still find I enjoy almost 2000mg of Potasium/day. I'm getting a hell of a lot of methylation out of my wimpy dosages of b12. I'm planning to lower my b12 even further ...... Really, are arx and I the only ones? Step forward peolple and admit you're really wierd, and admit B12 puts you to sleep!

Lol.

Well. I found that I needed more potassium and magnesium too, as those were also contributing to daytime sleepiness induced by mb12. Muscle weakness and sound sensitivity are symptoms that signal K/Mg deficits in my case.

Since both of us have googled this many times, maybe the only direct relation to sleep is the melatonin generation, as you have mentioned.

The indirect relation to sleep, however, I would say it must be co-factor deficiencies and electrolyte imbalances.. Of course, it might vary from person to person, but then again, we can only try to sort out our own case :thumbdown:

I hope to learn more from my experience and yours too, @shah78. Keep this thread alive whenever you observe something related to sleepiness. Till then, let's hope there are a lot of weird people out there!

 

[arx]

@arx
I take B12 always during the day, as I find it energizing. It has only caused sleepiness for me when I was taking too much at once. For me, I found that my body reacts with increased fatigue when I push it too much too fast. I divide my dose into two times am/lunch. methyl-b12 1000mcg am, 500mcg lunch. Adenosyl B12: 2.5mg each time.
All the best,
S

Hi @Star-Anise,

Yes. It might be the dosage issue. I feel sleepy in more than 1000 mg, more than 5000 mg and I cannot function that day. Which brand do you take? I've switched to Solgar now, after experimenting with NOW, Jarrow, and Enzymatic Therapy.

@arx
oh, p.s. I just remembered even my husband who has mild fatigue problems (no ME/CFS or any other chronic condition that we have identified - but I suspect some mild adrenal fatigue) when he takes his B12 too late, he definitely can have insomnia. I have gotten his genetic testing and he has COMT +/+ on all accounts so I have started him on Hydroxy-B12 - seems to be the best form he can tolerate without getting fatigue reaction during the day though. Adenosyl seems to be ok, but hydroxy is better. When he took adenosyl he got ++swollen lymph nodes within a week! Maybe type of B12 is a factor as well as suggested by @PeterPositive S

Hmm. It could be. Unfortunately I haven't got hold of hydroxo-b12 here in India. If he's able to convert to the active forms from hydroxocobalamin, that's very good!

Solgar gave me a energy boost for an hour, which I never observed from any of the other brands. After that one hour I feel really sleepy. Melatonin, co-factors (particularly folate), potassium and magnesium only come to mind.

Thanks for sharing, @Star-Anise

 

[arx]

@arx:
Which B12 form are you taking? Methyl B12? Adenosyl-B12? Others?

Hi @PeterPositive,

I take both, mb12 and adb12 -- Solgar and Country Life, respectively.

I agree with Star-Anise, in general B12 is energizing, in particular Methyl B12 causes my attention and alertness to spike. I would never take it in the evening, it works as a couple of strong coffees, at least for me.

Adenosyl B12 is less strong on the nervous system. I think I've read methyl-B12 can cross the brain blood barrier, while adenosyl-B12 doesn't. See here: http://www.howweheal.com/vitaminb12.htm

cheers

That's pretty good. I wish it could substitute my coffee

 

[peggy-sue]

I am taking folic aid now, too. The troubles I was having in my mouth actually got me some blood tests for deficiencies from my gp, and I was low in folic acid. (My gp said there was no difference between taking folate or folic acid, is that correct?
(I haven't been able to get any tests for deficiencies for ME, so this was a revelation!).

I am always looking for things to encourage sleepiness. I have trouble sleeping.

 

[CaliObserver]

Yup, mb12 makes me start yawning pretty quick and I get sleepy.

 

[peggy-sue]

Caffeine calms me down...
(I suspect I am a bit ADHD, but am too old to have ever been considered for "diagnosis".)

 

[Sea]

My gp said there was no difference between taking folate or folic acid, is that correct?

Not quite true. Folic acid is a synthetic folate which the body converts into methylfolate, the form the body needs to use. Some people have no problem making this conversion and thus, for them, there is no difference between supplementing with folic acid or methylfolate. (Except of course that it does require extra work for the body and in a sick, low energy patient it may be wise to supplement in a form that is easily used)

Others however have varying degrees of inability to convert folic acid into methylfolate so it is not the same for them. In this situation taking folic acid creates 2 problems:

1. A deficiency in folate - folic acid binds to folate receptors even in people who can't convert it and thus competes with natural folates from veggies and hinders them being absorbed and processed. (A blood test would usually show a high level of folate in this situation because the folic acid is just sitting around, but the cells are as starved for folate as if there was none)

2. A build up in the blood of unprocessed folic acid which adds to the body's burden of toxins that need to be eliminated.

Much of this has only been studied fairly recently as people are now exposed to a load of folic acid through the government mandatory fortification of foods to prevent neural tube defects.

 

[peggy-sue]

Thank-you, Sea!

So in your opinion, would it be better for a person with ME to take folic acid or methylfolate?
No point in asking my gp. He has disturbed beliefs about my disease, he is in denial.

I've been taking folic acid. But my improvements started as soon as I resumed my sublingual cobalamin.