very high b12 & high b6 and b1 without supplements ??

[Wende]

hi everyone,

i have a very high b12 without getting b12 injections or supplements for the last 10 years. and my diet should be a reason for b12 deficiency! i also have a lot of b12 defiency symptoms, i have a lot of neurological problems getting worse, so i expected my b12 to be low.
My b12 is >1250 and slowly rising (reference values 140-480)
My doctor also tested my liverfunction but everything seems to be ok at the moment.
also my b6 and b1 are too high without supplements!
i am low in folic acid.
at the moment my hair is falling out horrible, my dermatologist keeps asking if i have low b12.
i have high cortisol, low igf-1, low ferritin, low folic acid, low zinc.

i don't know what to do, but am feeling very bad the last 8 months, especially neurologically.

does anyone know why i could have very high b12 and high b6 and b1? and low folic acid...

(i didn't take supplements the last 7 years, but started jarrow 5000mcg b12 a few days ago and also 400mcg metafolin, Losferron(Ferrogluconaat), zinc)

 

[Sushi]

Hi Wende,

I opened a chat with you about the high B12 reading. Just click on "accept" if you would like to discuss it.

Sushi

 

[Wende]

sorry for the slow response Sushi, my son was crying. but am interested

 

[xrayspex]

high b12

hey I had high b12 too a few months ago but my doc never mentioned it. thats the sort of test result they don't worry about. but I did my own research (google, scholarly eh) and found out it can be associated with some health issues, I do have a few symptoms like blurry vision that could fit in with beginning of one of the related disorders, am going to watch things for awhile and if get worse ask for Jak 2 test, here is some info I found, please keep me posted on what you guys learn about high b12:


Please note that the phrase "there is no danger posed by excessive vitamin B12" refers to the INGESTION of B12, NOT the amount in your blood.

Conditions that can increase B12 levels include liver disease (such as cirrhosis or hepatitis)
and myeloproliferative disorders (for example, polycythemia vera and chronic myelocytic leukemia)

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/poly/

 

[Wende]

as i understand, high b12 is not dangerous, but the cause could be (that's what my doctor told me)
unfortunately they can't discover a reason for my high b12. so they are saying everything should be ok and are not motivated to look for what could be the cause!
i am very worried they missed something important.
they tested my liver functions and did many bloodtests but can't discover what is wrong.
(they also discoverd in bloodtests i have high free (unbound) copper but my ceruloplasmin level is normal. i also have had carnitin deficienty years ago)

 

[xrayspex]

it could be a lab error.
but if you remain concerned research the myeloproliferative disorders and some of the tests for that, like the JAK 2 gene one I mentioned and take the info to yr doc

 

[aprilk1869]

Elevated b12 can be caused by Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) as the bacteria produces analogues of b12 which are useless to the body but show up on blood tests. I don't know if this applies to other vitamins. SIBO can be caused by low stomach acid. Here is a simple test to see if you have enough stomach acid.

Take 1 level teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda dissolved in a little water, on an empty stomach *. [*That means 2 hours after breakfast, lunch or dinner where no other foods, supplements or drinks other than pure (still) water have been consumed since the last meal.] If sufficient acid is present in the stomach, the bicarbonate will be converted into CO2 gas, which produces significant bloating and belching within 5 10 minutes. If this happens, further action is unlikely to be required unless CO2 production is excessive.
http://me-cfsmethylation.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=104

 

[aprilk1869]

Vitamin B12 synthesis by human small intestinal bacteria

In man, physiological amounts of vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) are absorbed by the intrinsic factor mediated mechanism exclusively in the ileum1. Human faeces contain appreciable quantities of vitamin B12 or vitamin B12-like material presumably produced by bacteria in the colon2, but this is unavailable to the non-coprophagic individual. However, the human small intestine also often harbours a considerable microflora36 and this is even more extensive in apparently healthy southern Indian subjects6. We now show that at least two groups of organisms in the small bowel, Pseudomonas and Klebsiella sp., may synthesise significant amounts of the vitamin.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v283/n5749/abs/283781a0.html

 

[Freddd]

Vitamin B12 synthesis by human small intestinal bacteria

In man, physiological amounts of vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) are absorbed by the intrinsic factor mediated mechanism exclusively in the ileum1. Human faeces contain appreciable quantities of vitamin B12 or vitamin B12-like material presumably produced by bacteria in the colon2, but this is unavailable to the non-coprophagic individual. However, the human small intestine also often harbours a considerable microflora36 and this is even more extensive in apparently healthy southern Indian subjects6. We now show that at least two groups of organisms in the small bowel, Pseudomonas and Klebsiella sp., may synthesise significant amounts of the vitamin.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v283/n5749/abs/283781a0.html

Many of the Pseudomonas bacteria are pathogens in humans and often antibiotic resistant ones. They aslo can cause food spoilage and survive harsh environments. I suspect that drinking the water would make clean environment people very ill. How usable any b12 generated in any but the uppermost portion of the small intestine is absorbable is debatable. B12 deficiency in India is a very severe problem. It is the only country other than Japan of which I am aware that uses mb12 as its local medicinal b12. Further almost all the reproductive health effects studies of b12 deficiency come from India becasue of the widespread reproductive failure from b12 deficiency. Human feces is faily rich in mb12. In many countries that used human sewage for fertilizer the b12 content of vegetables as well as the bacteria producing it comes from feces not washed off.

Klebsiella are also pathogens in humans
\http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klebsiella_pneumoniae
Klebsiella pneumoniae is a Gram-negative, non-motile, encapsulated, lactose fermenting, facultative anaerobic, rod shaped bacterium found in the normal flora of the mouth, skin, and intestines.

In recent years, klebsiellae have become important pathogens in nosocomial infections.

It is closely related to K. oxytoca from which it is distinguished by being indole-negative and by its ability to grow on both melezitose and 3-hydroxybutyrate. It naturally occurs in the soil, and about 30% of strains can fix nitrogen in anaerobic conditions.[2] As a free-living diazotroph, its nitrogen fixation system has been much studied.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosocomial_infection
nosocomial infection (nos-oh-koh-mi-al), also known as a hospital-acquired infection or HAI, is an infection whose development is favoured by a hospital environment, such as one acquired by a patient during a hospital visit or one developing among hospital staff. Such infections include fungal and bacterial infections and are aggravated by the reduced resistance of individual patients.[1]

 

[Wende]

Thanks everyone! i will read the posted links

 

[AliB]

I know I am very late to this conversation but would like to add that if B12 levels are very high it can mean that the B12 is not being utilised. For some reason the body cannot convert it to its active form, so it is remaining inactive in the blood. A red blood cell test (RBC) would be a more accurate way of finding out whether the B12 is actually getting in to the cells.

if B12 cellular uptake is very low, despite the seemingly high blood level, then B6 will also be high because B6 needs active B12 in order to be metabolised, as I understand it.