A week and a half after starting B12.... feel terrible!

[caledonia]

Don't worry @Jimbo39 ! To be honest it's kind of helpful hearing your experiences as well, I too have been waking up at night/not falling asleep with a pounding heart and it's terrifying so it reassured me greatly to hear I'm not the onyl one and that you're ok

@Mary and @caledonia I'm sorry if I've been a complete pain with all my questions. Thank you once again for both your advice on the other thread. I've followed all your advice. Today I didn't take any vitamins except D3 and magnesium and Calcium. I took about 2500mg of potassium this morning via 4-banana smoothie, orange juice etc, after the nicotinic acid last night my heart finally calmed down but for some reason around 3pm today I started to get full on cramps and felt like a tight band was closing around my heart. I immediately started taking tomato juice with half a teaspoon of lo-salt... more orange juice.. eating bananas, plus about 600mg of potassium via supplements... I took more nicotinic acid (so 100mg so far today).... nothing was helping. I really feel I'm getting up to 5000/6000mg of potassium and still struggling with cramps/heart issues.

I eventually realised tonight my magnesium was the crappy magnesium oxide kind so wondered if it was partly that, went out and bought some magnesium citrate, took that and ate 4 bananas and finally things have calmed down. Oh and the nicotinic acid totally calmed me down and gave me the giggles! which was great So Jimbo maybe just check you've got a good magnesium too.

Good night everybody, I'll try not to bother anybody the near future unless it's an emergency

I'm glad to hear the nicotinic acid is helping.

You may have to dose the potassium and magnesium frequently like I do. It runs out of my system so fast - I dose four times a day. Once with each meal and then before bedtime. I need twice the amount of magnesium at bedtime to get me through the night.

I use mag glycinate. Mag oxide doesn't absorb well.

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia I have been sick with runny nose, congestion, water eyes, headaches since Sunday and reading this post prompted me to read your Roadblocks to Successful Methylation Treatment. That made me think possible Paradoxical Folate Deficiency, but there are several other things that seem much more likely (see list below). I have never had PFD in 10 months on Freddd's Protocol, and in the past few months I only have very minor symptoms, if any, when I increase dosages. Just wanted to get your opinion. Hope you can help!

I am currently taking total per day: Solgar MF 3,800mcg, Enzy MB 9,000mcg, AD 3,000mcg (can only tolerate Source Naturals), Dr's Best LCF 1,000mg. I take the MF and MB 3x/day, LCF 2x/day on empty stomach, all in divided doses, and AD 1x/day with my pm MB dose.

There are several different things that occurred on Sunday that could have triggered these symptoms, which makes it very difficult to know which one it is:

1. I got a new chest freezer that had a lot of chemical/new smells that dissipated somewhat after cleaning with baking soda and water. I am chemically sensitive, so this was a bit of a concern. On Sunday I ate food from the new freezer for the first time (food that doesn't usually bother me), and the congestion started shortly thereafter. At first I thought it must be from the freezer smells getting in the food, because of the timing and also because the other things I did that day (listed below) didn't seem that drastic. I decided to just try to adapt to the new freezer, which I often can do to new things after awhile, as the symptoms weren't so bad at that point.

I do want to add that I did not get the symptoms when I was cleaning the freezer, and and while I may have had similar symptoms from food or chemicals in the past, they are not usually to this extent. The symptoms would usually be milder and pass quickly.

2. I believe it was after I ate the food, but I'm not sure if before or after the symptoms started, I decided to try adding in a 30mg Solgar zinc citrate capsule. That was already in my game plan for the day, because it was the one missing essential nutrient that I had not been able to tolerate in the first several months of FP (other than the 15mg of zinc picolinate in a multi I have taken for years), so I wanted to try it again since I had been doing better on the protocol. When I had tried taking separate 20-50mg of zinc picolinate or zinc citrate previously, I had side effects like either an upset stomach or intense burning in my mouth/tongue, which is a common symptom for me.

I was amazed that I had no symptoms after I took it except for very slight tongue burn, which is not unusual for me. That made me think I must be getting better. I wish I could remember exactly when I took the zinc, but I think it would've been unusual for me to take it on an empty stomach before I ate. Yet it seems even more incredulous that I didn't postpone the zinc if I was already having symptoms.

I continued taking it every morning since (except for today), but I also continued eating the new freezer food daily, and my symptoms slowly worsened over the next few days. I do want to add that another reason I wanted to try extra zinc, was after reading a post from @ahmo about pyroluria, I took a questionnaire that showed me as being borderline. So I figured I'd try adding zinc first and then go from there.

3. For some dumb reason, I decided to also modify my PM dose of MB and AD on Sunday several hours after the congestion and headache already started. @Freddd and @ahmo both take their AD away from MB, although they take AD once a week, not once a day like I do. I cannot tolerate a large enough dose to take a big dose once a week. I decided to reduce my recent pm MB increase of 250mcg and do an AD increase of 1,000mcg instead, with the idea that I would slowly increase the AD dose while slowly decreasing the pm MB, in an effort to eventually take them away from each other. I have since read posts that people who take AD every day take it with MB, so I guess I did that for nothing. This is such a small adjustment on the MB side that I didn't think it would be a big deal, and surprisingly the increase of AD did not seem to bother me. I actually had a little more energy the next day, without the usual neurological and tight chest symptoms I get when I take too much AD.

Since I did this modification after the congestion/headache symptoms already started, I am only mentioning it because it might have added cumulatively to the symptoms getting worse over the next few days. It's usually pretty important that I take enough MB in ratio to MF, or I get a mild histamine reaction, usually watery eyes. I know you recommend nicotine, but previously @ahmo told me that extra MB decreased her histamine reactions, and sure enough just an extra 250mcg of MB will decrease mine. I usually end up adding it into the protocol as an increase whenever I increase MF.

4. Yet again not the smartest move, but yesterday I went 45 min to town for every 2 weeks shopping/errands and to get my highlights done (which I have done every couple months for many years). I know highlights are not the best thing to do when you're chemically sensitive, but it's worth it, as any symptoms are usually mild and don't last long. I also overexerted myself with the shopping/errands and felt exhausted from the heat.

When I woke up this morning, I felt terrible, like I was really coming down with a terrible cold! Congestion and watery eyes were much worse and my throat hurt too. I feel a little better as the day has gone on, but now I'm wondering if I really did catch a cold, and maybe it wasn't allergies or something to do with my protocol after all. It seems so unlikely that I could've caught a virus, because prior to Sunday, I had not had direct contact with anyone for 8 days. The only other possibility is that there was some virus/germs on my mail, and I did hear there was a bad cold going around.

Lastly it made me wonder if it could be Paradoxical Folate Deficiency because it matches those symptoms. However I don't feel like I did anything to set that off. I know this is all very confusing, and I have definitely learned a lesson about never doing more than one new thing at a time. I think I just got a little cocky, since I have started feeling a little better on FP. So far I am temporarily stopping the zinc citrate just in case, but I'm not sure what to do about my AD/MB doses tonight. Thank you very much for your thoughts on all of this!

I think what I would do is put the supplements back to how they were before you got sick - whatever you were stable on.

Then stop eating food out of the freezer and figure out a way to seal off the freezer fumes from the rest of your house. Hopefully it's as simple as closing the door to whatever room the freezer is in.

I'm not sure what to do about the highlights - do the fumes go away if you wash your hair?

If those don't work, try the PF deficiency test that alicec outlined.

If it's an actual cold, it should be self limiting within two weeks at a guess. It's been about a week already...

 

[Jimbo39]

NAET is supposed to be good for clearing various allergies, such as food allergies. I haven't tried this, but have had other energy therapies - EMDR, EFT and healing touch therapy - be helpful.

I presumed Naet was a type of muscle testing. After talking to my daughter, she's told me muscle testing was a part of it but also acupuncture. Sorry
She now seeing someone who does Quantum Energetics. Have you heard of this? It has something to do with healing disruptive energy fields.

Congratulations on your progress so far. Check out the Surviving Antidepressants forum for how to taper. I'm almost 4 years into a hopefully 5 year taper from Zoloft. A Valium and Paxil taper at those doses - maybe about 6 months to a year for each? depending on how fast you can reduce dose. I have to wait 8 weeks between reductions for Zoloft. Some people can do 3 weeks for SSRI's. I did a couple weeks between reductions for benzos.[/QUOT

Yes This whole process has been s pain to say the least. It's taken me 2 years to come down from 15 mg V. to 3. And I'm sure you know the closer you get the longer it takes. It's kind of weird, I tapered Paxil from 40 mg to 20 within 6 months and didn't have any sxs (brain zaps, cog fog, etc). Wonder if it's the 5HPT, Alpha GPC, PS and other brain stuff I've been taking? I'm going to taper more conservatively from here.

 

[caledonia]

I presumed Naet was a type of muscle testing. After talking to my daughter, she's told me muscle testing was a part of it but also acupuncture. Sorry
She now seeing someone who does Quantum Energetics. Have you heard of this? It has something to do with healing disruptive energy fields.

Haven't heard of Quantum Energetics.

 

[surfbaby]

I think what I would do is put the supplements back to how they were before you got sick - whatever you were stable on.
Then stop eating food out of the freezer and figure out a way to seal off the freezer fumes from the rest of your house. Hopefully it's as simple as closing the door to whatever room the freezer is in.
I'm not sure what to do about the highlights - do the fumes go away if you wash your hair?

Thanks so much for your reply! I really appreciate how well you are able to outline the steps whenever I've sought your advice. I do think it's a major allergy overload and not a cold, as I never had elevated temps or bodyaches, plus no people contact for 8 days prior. Also when I have contact with things that usually bother me anyway, the congestion symptoms temporarily get more severe, even if those aren't the symptoms I usually get from the item.

Yesterday I did put back all the supplements to how they were before I got sick. I am feeling a little better today (no headache!), but too soon to tell if it's from the supplements or just my body starting to adapt to the new freezer food. The highlight smells do dissipate with washing and out-gassing over time, and that part is better already.

The new freezer is in the garage, so I'm not getting smells that way, it's more of what's being absorbed into the food that's in it. Unfortunately I can't stop eating that food because all my frozen food is in there now, because my refrigerator (with top freezer) is not getting cold enough due to summer heat. I wanted to try a small new chest freezer first before I went into buying a new refrigerator to see how I would do with the new smells. I got very sick 7 years ago when my current refrigerator was new, and it took quite awhile for me to acclimate then, so you can see my dilemma. I tend to do better with frozen food than fresh, so my options are somewhat limited.

I think my body is already starting to adapt because I am slowly getting better. I do pretty well as long as my environment is under control, but that all goes out the window when you need to get a major new appliance. I have seen some improvement from FP with my chemical sensitivities, but the only thing that ever really helped in a big way was when I used to get EPD injections (now called LDA). I've seen some posts on this forum about it. I had a bad reaction to overdose of LDA 10 years ago, and it's expensive, but I'm hoping I can try again someday.

If those don't work, try the PF deficiency test that alicec outlined.

Thanks to @alicec for reminding me about the PF deficiency test. I think I would only do the test as a last resort, because whenever I take a little more MF in relationship to the amount of MB12 I'm taking, I get a histamine reaction, which is basically the same symptoms I'm already having (congestion, watery eyes, headache), except not as severe. So I'm concerned the test will make me feel a lot worse than I already am, and maybe flare the whole thing up again. At least the headaches are gone now.

I looked all morning for a post that Freddd did that explained the exact details of how many micrograms to take, how many hours apart, how long you do it, etc., but couldn't find it anywhere. Do either you, @alicec or @ahmo have any idea where that post is, or if not, can you tell me MF dose, how many hours apart, how long I'm supposed to do it, and when can I stop, etc. based on my current dose of 1200-1300mcg 3x/day?

Would I continue with my regularly scheduled MF and MB12 doses if they occurred during the testing time, or how would that work? Also when can you go back to your regular protocol schedule after you've just taken so much more MF, and how do you ease back into it? Or do you permanently increase your MF after? It seems that would affect your previous balance with MB12 and could cause a big crash, no? As previously mentioned, I am sensitive to increases in MF, so I want to have a good game plan if I decide to do it.

 

[ahmo]

Do either you, @alicec or @ahmo have any idea where that post is, or if not, can you tell me MF dose, how many hours apart, how long I'm supposed to do it, and when can I stop, etc. based on my current dose of 1200-1300mcg 3x/day?

Would I continue with my regularly scheduled MF and MB12 doses if they occurred during the testing time, or how would that work? Also when can you go back to your regular protocol schedule after you've just taken so much more MF, and how do you ease back into it? Or do you permanently increase your MF after? It seems that would affect your previous balance with MB12 and could cause a big crash, no?

I'm not sure which post exactly you refer to, my concentration is not so great. Here's something I've gotten from my Freddd's Guide, pg 10-11

Folate Deficiency

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/b-12-the-hidden-story.142/page-145

Increasing MeCbl quantities isn’t likely to change the amount of l-methylfolate needed. Adding AdoCbl might increase need somewhat because it opens up other layers of healing. Deplin is Metafolin which is a specific stable form of l-methylfolate You are aiming for the amount that will keep you out of paradoxical folate deficiency/insufficiency. It might be 4mg it might be 30mg. At this point I’m inclined to say that having to go as high as 30 probably indicates a lack of other things. I found that I reached that point fastest by increasing the dose by 50%-100% a day until the symptoms were fully controlled or at least visibly healing, which now goes to my earliest onset symptom, retaining water. After dropping the extra B1, B2 and B3 I appeared to have folate deficiency minimized but after a few months the skin around my fingernails is too ragged. It is appears to be the most mild symptom that takes months to show. So I have increased my dose to 8mg a day, from 4 to try for the next few months and see what heals. Things get slower as you pick off the quick incremental changes.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/ow-muscle-cramps-keeping-me-up-at- night-and-leading-to-permanent-injury.27753/#post-423306

Methylfolate doesn’t cause methyltrap. It is what is being blocked or trapped Lack of MeCbl causes methyltrap. Glutathione/NAC can cause methyltrap. Folic acid and folinic acid appear to cause partial methylation block as opposed to methyltrap unless it is effective and then a shortage of MeCbl causes methyltrap or partial methylation block. That is a problem with folic and folinic acid is that one never knows what the result means, it can


mean that it is working or not working, depending upon the person’s own response and their MeCbl content. Keeping methylfolate “below” MeCbl amounts will cause endless donut hole paradoxical folate deficiency. There is almost no relationship between amount of MeCbl and amount of Methylfolate that might be needed.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/should-i-reduce-my-b12.29096/

Question: methyl folate can range from 400, to roughly 1600mg a day.. Do you think that low dose of folate would even trigger paradox deficiency? It seems most people that had that were using much higher doses...

This one you have 100% backwards. A low dose like this almost always triggers donut hole paradoxical folate deficiency. Higher doses relieve it. Low dose methylfolate PFD can cause massive inflammation.

Daily doses of B1 and B2 above 30-50mg a day and B3 above 100mg a day can cause an insatiable need for methylfolate and potassium, so make sure that is ok. Remind me that you are not taking NAC, glutathione or Whey.

If you want to get rid of low folate symptoms and inflammation try 4mg of l-methylfolate or so each 4-6 hours Typically it will start turning around within a few hours and after a day or 3 you should know for sure. Now it is possible you are one of those who needs 30mg a day to make any headway but that is rare without folic acid or folinic acid or large amounts of vegetable folate.

Try 8mg before you go to bed tonight. Metafolin has no side effects different from sugar pills. That is what the Deplin study says at doses up to 30mg/day. Best results are at 15 and 30mg daily. That is what all my experience says. The people who take tiny doses have terrible reactions and think it is because of so much folate instead of so little. They have even worse responses with 200 mcg of folinic and 200mcg of mfolate. Wow do they get hit. That is because of a double whammy paradoxical folate deficiency. Without the folate you are wasting your money and wasting 90% of the b12. You could get equally bad results from 500mcg of b12.

Try it cautiously, 4 mg and then 4rmg in couple of more hours to avoid possible stomach distress or take 8mg and some food and go for it. You could be a new man in 2 days.

After you get rid of all the folate deficiency symptoms, then is the time to adjust other things. Doing it otherwise is bass akwards.

 

[surfbaby]

I'm not sure which post exactly you refer to, my concentration is not so great. Here's

Thanks so much for finding this! I think this was what I was looking for. I did look in your guide and other guides, but obviously my concentration is not so great either, because I did find the first 2 segments you posted, but not the 3rd part that I was looking for.

The episode I had seems to be more allergy-related to the chest freezer (and thankfully it is subsiding), so it was not Pardoxical Folate Deficiency. However it is valuable to have this information on hand in case I ever do have PFD!

Btw, my eye doc had to cancel yesterday because she was sick. So now I have to wait another week to find out if all this posting has triggered uveitis in my eyes. I am just going to try to pace myself a little better until I see her, and hope for the best!

 

[Jimbo39]

Congratulations on your progress so far. Check out the Surviving Antidepressants forum for how to taper. I'm almost 4 years into a hopefully 5 year taper from Zoloft. A Valium and Paxil taper at those doses - maybe about 6 months to a year for each? depending on how fast you can reduce dose. I have to wait 8 weeks between reductions for Zoloft. Some people can do 3 weeks for SSRI's. I did a couple weeks between reductions for benzos.

I don't know how I missed your statement on tapering from SSRIs in Start Low and Go Slow. So you had delayed w/ds 6 months after you cut too fast? Yikes! What was it like? I'm going to up my dose to 30 mg Paxil and wait 6 months before starting a micro taper. In the meantime, I'll check out Surviving ADs and Paxil Progress.

 

[Jimbo39]

Could someone tell me what a PF deficiency test is? (Tried searching for it).

 

[alicec]

Could someone tell me what a PF deficiency test is? (Tried searching for it).

paradoxical folate deficiency test - ie try taking more folate and see if symptoms subside.

 

[surfbaby]

Could someone tell me what a PF deficiency test is? (Tried searching for it).

If you read ahmo's post, 5 posts above this one, she copied some info Freddd posted, including a detailed description in the last segment on how to do a PFD test, as well as some links.

 

[caledonia]

I don't know how I missed your statement on tapering from SSRIs in Start Low and Go Slow. So you had delayed w/ds 6 months after you cut too fast? Yikes! What was it like? I'm going to up my dose to 30 mg Paxil and wait 6 months before starting a micro taper. In the meantime, I'll check out Surviving ADs and Paxil Progress.

It was really really awful, the most horrible experience of my entire life. I call it my "lost year". I feel that I'm lucky to have survived it.

The worst symptom was 24/7 akathisia for 10 months. I was extremely overstimulated and agitated. It felt like I had drunk 1000 pots of coffee. I was having nonstop horrible OCD death thoughts due to this overstimulation. Extreme noise sensitivity - I could hear someone mowing their lawn way down the block, even with the windows closed and earplugs in and it about sent me over the edge. I had acid reflux so bad, I lived in a recliner day and night for many months as I couldn't lay down.

I had my saliva cortisol tested during that time and my cortisol had gone from a severe adrenal fatigue state (near zero) to five times higher than normal. It was so high, it was literally off the chart.

I finally got out of it by gradually reinstating the Zoloft and doing Relora for about 3 months to calm the adrenals down, along with many other calming supplements. When I finally got it all calmed down, I had very bad post exertional malaise, basically bedridden, for a month. I wasn't sure if I was ever going to recover from that, but luckily I did go back to my baseline of about 25% of normal energy.

Unfortunately Paxil Progess is now defunct, but you can still be able to find some posts on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. Surviving Antidpressants is the replacement.

You can read many more stories like mine on Surviving Antidepressants. I had every symptom in the book except for brain zaps. I did a lot of research on this after I recovered. You can have akathisia any time you start, stop or change the dose of an SSRI, so be very careful and just make small gradual changes - please do check in with Surviving Antidepressants before increasing your dose.

The drug companies don't admit to what is happening to so many people, and doctors don't know how to taper people correctly. They'll just tell you that you're having anxiety, and that you'll need to be on their drugs forever. No admittance that your issues are caused by their drugs, not by any underlying mental health issues on your part. Needless to say, this is a huge hidden problem.

 

[Jimbo39]

The worst symptom was 24/7 akathisia for 10 months. I was extremely overstimulated and agitated. It felt like I had drunk 1000 pots of coffee. I was having nonstop horrible OCD death thoughts due to this overstimulation. Extreme noise sensitivity - I could hear someone mowing their lawn way down the block, even with the windows closed and earplugs in and it about sent me over the edge. I had acid reflux so bad, I lived in a recliner day and night for many months as I couldn't lay dow

This sounds very similar to my experience when my doc abruptly quit prescribing hydrocodone. He was covering his butt without any concern of the consequences it had on his patients. I lost 2 years of my life.

The drug companies don't admit to what is happening to so many people, and doctors don't know how to taper people correctly. They'll just tell you that you're having anxiety, and that you'll need to be on their drugs forever. No admittance that your issues are caused by their drugs, not by any underlying mental health issues on your part. Needless to say, this is a huge hidden problem.

My psych doc is the same way. When I told him I wanted to taper Valium, he was like, what for?, just quit. Stupid, idiot doctors.

 

[caledonia]

This sounds very similar to my experience when my doc abruptly quit prescribing hydrocodone. He was covering his butt without any concern of the consequences it had on his patients. I lost 2 years of my life.

My psych doc is the same way. When I told him I wanted to taper Valium, he was like, what for?, just quit. Stupid, idiot doctors.

I'm sorry to hear about the two years lost to hydrocodone withdrawal. Sounds like you should be very careful with the Paxil too. This time you're aware and in control, so it should go a lot better.

I've only had minor temporary issues with my taper this time.

 

[Jimbo39]

I'm sorry to hear about the two years lost to hydrocodone withdrawal. Sounds like you should be very careful with the Paxil too. This time you're aware and in control, so it should go a lot better.

I've only had minor temporary issues with my taper this time.

 

[Jimbo39]

I'm sorry to hear about the two years lost to hydrocodone withdrawal. Sounds like you should be very careful with the Paxil too. This time you're aware and in control, so it should go a lot better.

You would think I'd learn. I've been extremely careful with my micro tapering of Valium, but then i go and pull a stunt like this with Paxil. Actually I've only been on Paxil for two years (not that I wouldn't have developed a dependence for it) and if I remember correctly, I reduced from 40 to 20 mg in the course of a year. I was on Zoloft (150 mg) since 1998. 150 mg of Zoloft is about 15-20 mg of Paxil. After my meltdown, I think my psych doc was worried about me drooling on his carpet so me gave me this mega dose.

I've only had minor temporary issues with my taper this time.

Glad to hear. BTW, I haven't been able to post on Surviving ADs. I'm having problems creating my signature and appearantly without it you can't post.

 

[Chocolove]

@Jimbo39 Have you ever met a pyschiatrist or other MD who looked into your nutritional status before prescribing psych meds? Doctors do not prescribe things they are not familiar with, and they are not trained in nutrition. They pander to pharmaceutical companies and you end up with an Rx that keeps you coming back for more, or else. It makes a continuing stream of revenue for the doctor and the the pharmaceutical company. But hey, what do you expect when your doctor's visit is for only 15 min. max and they have so many other patients. It's a mill.

One of the major problems associated with both SSRIs and SNRIs over time is dependency as well as worsening NT depletion, the very problem it is supposed to solve. More and more medication is required with greater and greater depletion leading to a vicious cycle of progressively more medication needed with less and less effect.

This problem can be resolved with prescribing the proper amino acids and nutrients—the building blocks of Neurotransmitters, and the benefits of the medications will resume within one to two weeks. Sad to say this is seldom the path taken by conventional medicine. Instead a larger dose or more potent medication is prescribed, again masking the underlying root problem of NT depletion. Over time, sufferers become over medicated and sedated, but depression continues.

Those who are currently on SSRIs and SNRIs should not abruptly stop their treatment to avoid withdrawal symptoms that can be very hard to bear. Take a step back and look at the big picture. A comprehensive plan is needed to replenish deficiency and rebalance NTs to prevent depression from worsening. Underlying chronic problems commonly associated with NT imbalance, such as chronic fatigue, infection, or Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome, should be addressed so the root cause is dealt with properly. Natural compounds can be administered, but titrated to match the body’s state of function each step along the way. Medications can be tapered off slowly as the body returns to optimal function and root problems resolve. Timing is key, and premature cessation can bring on withdrawal and other negative side effects. Remember that an NT imbalance is more often than not secondary to some other underlying disease, which is why most NT self corrects once the underlying condition is resolved.

The quotes above are from an article by Dr. Lam who specializes in adrenal fatigue:
https://www.drlam.com/blog/antidepressant-side-effects-and-adrenal-fatigue-syndrome-part-4/11223/
Dr. Lam's website does provide some helpful information. According consumer reviews his consults are extremely expensive.

 

[caledonia]

You would think I'd learn. I've been extremely careful with my micro tapering of Valium, but then i go and pull a stunt like this with Paxil. Actually I've only been on Paxil for two years (not that I wouldn't have developed a dependence for it) and if I remember correctly, I reduced from 40 to 20 mg in the course of a year. I was on Zoloft (150 mg) since 1998. 150 mg of Zoloft is about 15-20 mg of Paxil. After my meltdown, I think my psych doc was worried about me drooling on his carpet so me gave me this mega dose.

Glad to hear. BTW, I haven't been able to post on Surviving ADs. I'm having problems creating my signature and appearantly without it you can't post.

I ran the numbers on the Paxil and reducing from 40 to 20mg in a year looks good and within the range that Surviving AD would suggest. The next half should go a lot slower though.

I logged in at Surviving AD and tried to make a signature. There is something goofy going on. Have you tried contacting a moderator?

 

[Jimbo39]

@Jimbo39 Have you ever met a pyschiatrist or other MD who looked into your nutritional status before prescribing psych meds? Doctors do not prescribe things they are not familiar with, and they are not trained in nutrition. They pander to pharmaceutical companies and you end up with an Rx that keeps you coming back for more, or else. It makes a continuing stream of revenue for the doctor and the the pharmaceutical company. But hey, what do you expect when your doctor's visit is for only 15 min. max and they have so many other patients. It's a mill.

My psych doc is definitely a pill pusher. His answer is to increase the dosage or try something stronger tho he is not opposed to me tapering as long as I appear fine (I've shown a 60-70 % improvement since tapering). I'm sure a lot of it is, as you say, improving my diet and supplementing with essential amino acids, vitamins, minerals, and brain supports like 5-HTP, PS, coconut oil, and DHA. It feel that curcumin and Resveratrol has reduced my brain inflammation. Brain fog has cleared about 80%. I'm hoping that Freddd's protocol will further improve my brain as far as reducing inflammation and getting my methylation cycle going so I can produce NTs naturally. I think you're right about adrenal support. If you could pick one supplementing from the link you provided what would it be? I have read some of Dr Lam's blogs.

 

[Jimbo39]

I ran the numbers on the Paxil and reducing from 40 to 20mg in a year looks good and within the range that Surviving AD would suggest. The next half should go a lot slower though.

Yes, the lower you go the slower it gets. 10% of 20mg is much higher that 10% of 100. So I'm guessing you spread it out over a longer length? With my Valium taper, I asked for liquid V. I add 1 ml( which Is equivalent to 1 mg) to 99 ml of water so I have 100 ml of solution. Right now I'm tapering from 3 mg V. So I take a 2 mg tablet and reduce the liquid by .01 mg/ml a day. It takes me roughly 3 months to taper 1 mg. It's going to take me even longer the lower I get. At 2 mg I'll probably reduce by .005 ml/day. This has serve me well, knock on wood. I've found that healing is not linear so you never know when you're going to be hit. I still need to taper from Paxil, Trazadone, and Gabapentin. When I think about it I feel totally overwhelmed.

I logged in at Surviving AD and tried to make a signature. There is something goofy going on. Have you tried contacting a moderator?

Yes, I messaged them twice without any success.