A week and a half after starting B12.... feel terrible!

[caledonia]

I know. I'm 60 now so what's the point?

The answer to questions like that is - well presumably you're going to be 65 or 70 anyway. So would you rather be 70 on the drugs or 70 off the drugs?

Then there is always the prospect of "poopout" - if the drug stops working. This is with SSRI's. You need serotonin for the drug to work at all. They double the serotonin you already have. But then they also ironically downregulate serotonin.

So if your serotonin is so low that even if it's doubled it doesn't help, that's what's called "poopout". Then they start switching you to different drugs hoping something else will work for you.

This happened to my dad. He was on Zoloft for many years. It stopped working.They switched him to Prozac. That worked for a little while then that quit working. They increased that and he had a syndrome where he felt like he was going to kill himself or kill my mom. We got him off that fast. Then he was stuck with Risperdal and clonazepam.

Towards the end, he had a lot of anxiety that was unable to be treated, poor guy. (note: he also had some dementia, not sure how much that factored in, or even if long term use of these drugs caused it.)

With liquid it's a breeze. It takes me about 5 minutes. I have a chart on the wall that tells me the amount to reduce each day.

I like the sound of that. Even if I had to buy name brand, the amounts I'd be using are so small, maybe I could afford it.

 

[dannybex]

Ummm, what does any of this have to do with taking too much B12?

 

[Jimbo39]

Then there is always the prospect of "poopout" - if the drug stops working. This is with SSRI's. You need serotonin for the drug to work at all. They double the serotonin you already have. But then they also ironically downregulate serotonin

I think I am "pooped out". My serotonin level is 62.2 (34.2-208.2). That's what's so insidious about SSRIs, when you inhibit S re uptake, your brain says "why produce more?" Im thinking the reason many of us got put on SSRIs was because we weren't producing enough of it due to a faulty BH4 cycle. So it seems if we can address that and help our bodies produce NTs naturally, maybe it'll help us gradually taper off of them? In the meantime I'm supplementing with 5HTP and other brain supports. Personally, I don't think my med is doing a thing for me.

I feel there is a need for antidepressants if one is very depressed but people should be warned about the "poopout" effect or reaching tolerance where the drug turns against you.

I'm so sorry about your Dad. I often worry that this will be my lot. Or if taking these drugs is going to bring early dementia.

 

[Jimbo39]

Ummm, what does any of this have to do with taking too much B12?

Sorry @dannybex I don't know how it morphed into this.

 

[Oci]

....You could be twitching your legs or feet all night long, semi waking you up dozens of times a night. You're sleeping so you're not aware of it. This is one reason people wake up not feeling refreshed. I had this and had no idea until a sleep study caught it.

The mag especially helps a lot. I'm taking almost 1800mg total for the day, which is a huge amount. Most people are good with something in the 300-800mg range.

As for potassium, I was taking 3000mg the first few years of methylation supplements as that requires potassium for cell rebuilding. Now I take 50mg........

Hi Caledonia, I am wondering what all you did for the restless leg problem? Just add the minerals above? Thanks, Oci

 

[caledonia]

Hi Caledonia, I am wondering what all you did for the restless leg problem? Just add the minerals above? Thanks, Oci

Yes.

 

[caledonia]

I think I am "pooped out". My serotonin level is 62.2 (34.2-208.2). That's what's so insidious about SSRIs, when you inhibit S re uptake, your brain says "why produce more?" Im thinking the reason many of us got put on SSRIs was because we weren't producing enough of it due to a faulty BH4 cycle. So it seems if we can address that and help our bodies produce NTs naturally, maybe it'll help us gradually taper off of them? In the meantime I'm supplementing with 5HTP and other brain supports. Personally, I don't think my med is doing a thing for me.

I feel there is a need for antidepressants if one is very depressed but people should be warned about the "poopout" effect or reaching tolerance where the drug turns against you.

I'm so sorry about your Dad. I often worry that this will be my lot. Or if taking these drugs is going to bring early dementia.

Me too. Mine is 42 with a range 57 - 306 μg/gCr being normal. This is with doing a low amount of methylation supplements which is supposed to help with neurotransmitters. On the bright side, my other neurotransmitters are looking somewhat better than they used to, with GABA now higher than glutamate. That helps with anxiety.

My med is well below a therapeutic dose, so it's not doing anything for me and hasn't been for quite awhile. I do 5htp if I'm having trouble. I had some trouble after doing a round of non frequent dose mercury chelation (the wrong way to do it).

My dad also had a lot of lead exposure from his work as well as mercury fillings, so those would also factor into having dementia.

 

[Jimbo39]

GABA now higher than glutamate. That helps with anxiety.

That's wonderful. I'm sure it's helped tremendously with anxiety. Mine is low. 3.5(2-11). Glutamate is 15.4(10-78). I'm not sure how I would compare since they have different ranges. I think my biggest problem is PEA 61(9-88). I have 4 times the high range of phenylalanine ( precursor). It's an excitatory NT but also helps you to focus. Looking back, I'm pretty sure I had/have autistic like behavior. I'm able to focus, almost in a OCD manner, on the task at hand but I get sensory overload in a group situation where everybody's talking at the same time. Going to ,say, Costco freaks me out.

My dad also had a lot of lead exposure from his work as well as mercury fillings, so those would also factor into having dementia.

I had my fillings removed as well as infected teeth. My Mercury was <dl, thank goodness. All my HMs are low with the exception of cadmium which was borderline .001(<.001). I wonder if serum tests are accurate. I read that HM could reside in tissue. Gut bacteria can even sequester them.

 

[caledonia]

That's wonderful. I'm sure it's helped tremendously with anxiety. Mine is low. 3.5(2-11). Glutamate is 15.4(10-78). I'm not sure how I would compare since they have different ranges. I think my biggest problem is PEA 61(9-88). I have 4 times the high range of phenylalanine ( precursor). It's an excitatory NT but also helps you to focus. Looking back, I'm pretty sure I had/have autistic like behavior. I'm able to focus, almost in a OCD manner, on the task at hand but I get sensory overload in a group situation where everybody's talking at the same time. Going to ,say, Costco freaks me out.

You look at their relative values. So on the test, if the GABA line is bigger (longer) than the glutamate line, you have more GABA. And vice versa.

I had my fillings removed as well as infected teeth. My Mercury was <dl, thank goodness. All my HMs are low with the exception of cadmium which was borderline .001(<.001). I wonder if serum tests are accurate. I read that HM could reside in tissue. Gut bacteria can even sequester them.

I'm glad your fillings are out. That stops ongoing exposure. However, you likely still have mercury in your tissues including the brain. The serum test only shows current exposures.

The testing and treatment for mercury is kind of a minefield. After years of experimentation and research I have found what I think is the best, which is Andrew Cutler frequent dose chelation. You test with a hair test, but looking at minerals is more important than the actual value of the metals. Your mercury can still look low on that, but deranged mineral transport is a tell tale sign it's still in there causing damage.

See the Cuter chelation section in my signature link.

 

[Jimbo39]

You look at their relative values. So on the test, if the GABA line is bigger (longer) than the glutamate line, you have more GABA. And vice versa.

Yes, the glutamate line is longer but not by much (GABA-high low level, glutamate-low normal)

The testing and treatment for mercury is kind of a minefield. After years of experimentation and research I have found what I think is the best, which is Andrew Cutler frequent dose chelation.

I pretty sure my body's not ready for chelation yet. I haven't even started my B protocol.

You test with a hair test, but looking at minerals is more important than the actual value of the metals. Your mercury can still look low on that, but deranged mineral transport is a tell tale sign it's still in there causing damage.

Why do you mean by deranged mineral transport?

 

[caledonia]

Why do you mean by deranged mineral transport?

Instead of all your minerals being in middle of the normal ranges, they will show a pattern of many of them being low or a mix some very high and some very low. This is because mercury is blocking various enzymes in your body, which need the minerals to function.

Cutler has several "counting rules" to help figure out if they're deranged. You count how many minerals are left of right of the midline (50%). If you meet even one of the counting rules you have mercury.

I had a couple of them.

 

[Jimbo39]

Cutler has several "counting rules" to help figure out if they're deranged. You count how many minerals are left of right of the midline (50%). If you meet even one of the counting rules you have mercury.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean if one mineral is left or right of midline you have mercury? That would apply to most if not all of us.

 

[Violeta]

Yes, I remember it now. Its been 2 months since I read it. I had to ask myself why I'm taking so long to start. I think it's because of an adverse reaction to IV Bs.



My RBCs showed potassium level at 3,218(2,220-3,626 mcg/g) but I still feel deficient (twitching limbs,etc). Could it be that other min/Vit are needed for it to be utilized properly?

Homeopathic materia medica is good for finding which minerals correspond to which symptom, and it looks as though phosphorus would be more related to strong palpitations than potassium. http://www.homeoint.org/books/boericmm/p/phos.htm

 

[caledonia]

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean if one mineral is left or right of midline you have mercury? That would apply to most if not all of us.

Well, not just simply to the left or right. How many to the left or right. How far they are they to the left or right.

There's a shortcut version of the rules on this page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html#counting_rules

Under the heading "How to Read a Hair Test from DDI" (about 1/3 of the way down the page). In the full version of the test there are 5 rules, I think.

There is more info on the same page explaining the rationale behind the counting rules.

 

[Jimbo39]

My brain is dead. I've got this bookmarked to read later. My daughters has a mercury problem so I'll refer Dr Cutler to her. How is your chelation going? How often do you have to test?

 

[Jimbo39]

@caledonia I read the link on Dr Cutler's counting method to determine impaired mineral transport. I like the way you put it, "deranged mineral transport." It seems there are 3 counting methods. Since I'm taking mineral supplements, how long do I need to wait after I quit before I get a HMT? Did you test positive using the counting method without it showing up on HMT?

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia I read the link on Dr Cutler's counting method to determine impaired mineral transport. I like the way you put it, "deranged mineral transport." It seems there are 3 counting methods. Since I'm taking mineral supplements, how long do I need to wait after I quit before I get a HMT? Did you test positive using the counting method without it showing up on HMT?

The hair records the last three months. So you would have to wait that long to get a test showing a baseline without supplements. I don't think that's necessary and I haven't seen any info from Cutler groups saying to do that.

Do, however, make a note of what supplements you were taking when you took the hair sample. Report that on the test that you submit to the Frequent Dose Chelation group for interpretation (that's one of the questions they ask).

I was taking very small amounts of a multivitamin and also methylation supplements and some other minerals. They said my test looked somewhat normal. Even so, I met Rule 1 and Rule 4.

My mercury looked low. My arsenic looked high and I do have many symptoms of arsenic. They said that one is accurate. It just depends on the metal. For some metals, you can look at their levels and they're accurate on a hair test, others, especially mercury, not so much. The data Cutler gives is that 1 in 10 people may show high mercury if they have high mercury.

If the test doesn't meet any counting rules, it's not the end of the story. If you have symptoms of mercury or other metals, they suggest doing some test rounds of chelation. Feeling either good or bad with chelation is diagnostic of having mercury or other metals. If you didn't have them, then you wouldn't feel anything one way or the other.

 

[Jimbo39]

The data Cutler gives is that 1 in 10 people may show high mercury if they have high mercury.

These are not very good odds. So hair and serum metal tests are pretty much worthless as far as mercury goes.

 

[caledonia]

These are not very good odds. So hair and serum metal tests are pretty much worthless as far as mercury goes.

Right, that's why you have to look for deranged mineral transport. It's like fingerprints left at a crime scene vs. catching the criminal in the act redhanded.

The correct Doctors Data test comes with both a metals test and a minerals test. I don't think you can get just a minerals test. Plus there is still value in looking at metals for some of the other metals besides mercury (or if you're one of the 1 in 10 who does show high mercury).

 

[Jimbo39]

If the test doesn't meet any counting rules, it's not the end of the story. If you have symptoms of mercury or other metals, they suggest doing some test rounds of chelation

Yes, I read that chelation can free up mercury so it can be measured by tests. Since were all different, I wonder if some of us will release more Mercury than others?

It makes sense that mercury tends to accumulate in the liver and the brain since both are soft organs, the brain being mostly fat. This is bad news.