antares4141
Senior Member
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- Truth or consequences, nm
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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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Supplements are like screws in a motor.
I've been guilty more times than I can count in attributing this, that, or the other thing to my ups or downs. Other than mold exposure where symptoms are very profound and reproducible, and to some lesser extent things like perfumes which consistently seem to elicit a negative health effect type response. So I agree.Often, PWME who take a supplement, or supplements, experience an improvement or remission of some symptoms, and attribute that improvement to the supplement. Just as often though, PWME who do nothing at all experience improvement or remission in some symptoms. Without double blinding, how do we know that the former isn't actually the latter?
It's worth remembering that Rituxan was a smashing success until subjected to the scrutiny of double blinding, where the arm of the trial on placebo showed greater improvement than the arm on Rituxan. I'm sorry, but without a biomarker that can be monitored, patient reports of improvement are not very compelling to me anymore.
Agreed mainly, but this is not an allegory which makes understandable what you could do with them, or why they work apart from helping with a deficiency.Supplements are nothing than food-components the human is used and addapted to metabolize since eons.
This study talks about 26,000 distinct, definable biochemicals present in our food:
The unmapped chemical complexity of our diet - The 'dark matter' of nutrition
So it´s 150 common components to choose from, and maybe in a sequence to get any proposed or wished effect.Our understanding of how diet affects health is limited to 150 key nutritional components that are tracked and catalogued by the United States Department of Agriculture and other national databases. Although this knowledge has been transformative for health sciences, helping unveil the role of calories, sugar, fat, vitamins and other nutritional factors in the emergence of common diseases,
these nutritional components represent only a small fraction of the more than 26,000 distinct, definable biochemicals present in our food—many of which have documented effects on health but remain unquantified in any systematic fashion across different individual foods.
Using new advances such as machine learning, a high-resolution library of these biochemicals could enable the systematic study of the full biochemical spectrum of our diets, opening new avenues for understanding the composition of what we eat, and how it affects health and disease
patient reports of improvement are not very compelling to me anymore
So it´s 150 common components to choose from, and maybe in a sequence to get any proposed or wished effect.
As I said I am not at home, so can not calculate it, but this is far far far more possiblities than in every lottery is played with. Far far far far more.
http://ucsdnews.ucsd...ats-in-your-gut
Big data dump from the world’s largest citizen science microbiome project reveals how factors such as diet, antibiotics and mental health status can influence the microbial and molecular makeup of your gut
Emerging trends
All of the data collected by the American Gut Project are publicly available, without participants’ identifying information. This open access approach allows researchers around the world to mine the data for meaningful associations between factors such as diet, exercise, lifestyle, microbial makeup and health. Here are a few observations that have emerged so far:
Diet. The number of plant types in a person’s diet plays a role in the diversity of his or her gut microbiome—the number of different types of bacteria living there. No matter the diet they prescribed to (vegetarian, vegan, etc.), participants who ate more than 30 different plant types per week (41 people) had gut microbiomes that were more diverse than those who ate 10 or fewer types of plants per week (44 people). The gut samples of these two groups also differed in the types of molecules present.
Antibiotics. The gut microbiomes of American Gut Project participants who reported that they took antibiotics in the past month (139 people) were, as predicted, less diverse than people who reported that they had not taken antibiotics in the last year (117 people). But, paradoxically, people who had taken antibiotics recently had significantly greater diversity in the types of chemicals in their gut samples than those who had not taken antibiotics in the past year.
The participants who ate more than 30 plants per week also had fewer antibiotic resistance genes in their gut microbiomes than people who ate 10 or fewer plants. In other words, the bacteria living in the guts of the plant-lovers had fewer genes that encode the molecular pumps that help the bacteria avoid antibiotics. This study didn’t address why this might be the case, but the researchers think it could be because people who eat fewer plants may instead be eating more meat from antibiotic-treated animals or processed foods with antibiotics added as a preservative, which may favor the survival of antibiotic-resistant bacteria...
So, chromium has been found to help some mood, for rather unknown reason, possibly something with metabolism. Nickel has ben found to block T-type calcium currents, probabaly in different manners in different subunits!
It should be worth to test the stuff not only in a single intake but also in a sequence, say first nickel and later chromium. Combo not tested, just for instance.
I referred to the well known 150 components, in expectation that these ones are also the most important ones, indeed, the most other ones should be xenobiotics like flavanoids e.g., which influence the body also, of course (which is the articel about).With all that complexity, one has to consider the most simplest equation: 'who ate more than 30 different plant types per week had gut microbiomes that were more diverse than those who ate 10 or fewer types of plants per week'
I don´t want to deny that some ppl got out of ME/CFS even by accident, probabaly involving a huge amount of influences, flavanoids and whatever.Comparing this with lottery, with only 1 jackpot is completely inappropiate.
This tips on an inevitable problem, of course. If you do any pronounced influence on A, you might do an influence on B as well which might be highly unwelcome. I highly agree that one should seek for synergisms, so that one can lessen with one influence (which might get out of work anyway).Also all the studies in the original BBC articles finding harm were individual nutrients taken in isolation, since the scientific method tries to exclude too many confounders, therefore bound to create imbalances in other nutrients and health problems. Nutrients have to be taken in combinations, considering their synergism or antagonism with other nutrients.
Thank you for the input, I will try ro keep it in mind!With all that complexity, one has to consider the most simplest equation: 'who ate more than 30 different plant types per week had gut microbiomes that were more diverse than those who ate 10 or fewer types of plants per week'
It would be nice if the app also collected and collated statistics in a central location from other users of the app to look for a pattern of anomalies for any given illness. Like CFS, or lyme, or lupus.Recently, one of the ME support platforms is showing an app for helping us track symptoms....
Its just so totally subjective....I am really lousy at rating my own condition. Wish we had more ways to accurately show- changes in our condition....that are tangible, or measureable.
Does am. heart rate at rest...does that tell us something about our condition? I'm still trying to determine that....