weird bruises on legs with painful white bumps/spots center, anyone else?

[pattismith]

Since july, this is the third bruise of that kind I have. The two legs are involved.
I think they are probably trauma related, but never had this kind before.


They are very low to improve, and the bump in the skin is still persisting after the discoloration has resolved.

 

[kangaSue]

Nutcracker Syndrome (NCS) can cause similar slow healing bruising (from increased venous pressure rather than trauma I think). Tends to be worse on the left leg with NCS though and mine is a mess of constant bruising, but the right leg is also mildly affected at times.
Iliac vein compression (May Thurner Syndrome) can cause this too and can affect both legs, and not uncommon to have both conditions together (I only have NCS though).

 

[pattismith]

The mystery of my abnormal bruises is partly resolved (I even got a palm bruise after just opeing a jar, at the thumb's base)

I had urinary symptoms on 9 th of september and took Tinidazole 2 gr on 10th september.
Since then, my bruises that were very slow to resolve started to resolve quicker and no new bruise appeared.

My reasonable hypothesis is that my corticosteroid treatment allowed some bacterial growth in my blood or vessels.

Chlamydia Pneumoniae or Mycoplasma Pneumoniae or Borrelia could be involved, but I'm not sure as there is no consensus about Tinidazole activity against these bacterias...
A gut anaerobic bacteria maybe? A protozoa?

I hope my story will help other with similar bruises...

 

[Pyrrhus]

The mystery of my abnormal bruises is partly resolved

My reasonable hypothesis is that my corticosteroid treatment allowed some bacterial growth in my blood or vessels.

Congratulations on possibly figuring this out!

We need to celebrate every step forward!

 

[pattismith]

Congratulations on possibly figuring this out!

We need to celebrate every step forward!

yes it's a kind of achievement when we can identify one infectious agent at play...

The bad thing is that I have problem tolerating most antibiotics.

In 2017, I already took the Wheldon combine antibiotics protocol for Chlamydia Pneumoniae (I'm positive for it and also Mycoplasma pneumoniae positive), but had to give up after three months of hell.

2 gr Tinidazole was also a kind of nightmare with three days of strong head pain. I wouldn't have found the courage to take it if I wasn't really in pain with this urinary problem.
I'm really glad I did it!

 

[pattismith]

Congratulations on possibly figuring this out!

We need to celebrate every step forward!

I have found another hypothesis that may fit with the good effect of Tinidazole to resolve bruises....

Scientific papers showed there is a weird circle initiated by metalloproteases when there is blood effusion in tissu (it's particularly studied in the brain where it's a big problem).
MMP then initiate inflammatory process and worsen vascular damages, and they found inhibiting MMP at an early stage is beneficial.

I looked if Tinidazole could have an inhibitory effect on MMP and found it possible... ( maybe directly or indirectly by anti-infectious effect )

Matrix Metalloproteinases in Acute Intracerebral Hemorrhage | SpringerLink

[Impacts of atovastatin and tinidazole on cardiac muscle inflammation factors of tumor necrosis factor-α, interleukin-1 and metalloproteinase-2 of experimental rabbits with atherosclerosis and periodontitis] - PubMed (nih.gov)

 

[Pyrrhus]

I looked if Tinidazole could have an inhibitory effect on MMP and found it possible...

That's interesting!

Someone (maybe @Hip ) listed some MMP inhibitors here:
https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Collagen#Potential_modulators

 

[lenora]

There's no question that some meds can cause bruising. You barely have to touch the problem area. Blood thinners are at the top of the list, but plenty of others can also cause problems. (Usually cosmetic.)

Good luck in finding out the exact cause. Yours, Lenora.

 

[pattismith]

That's interesting!

Someone (maybe @Hip ) listed some MMP inhibitors here:
https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Collagen#Potential_modulators

maybe it would be interesting to add drugs that showed MMP inhibition properties in periodontal disease (often associated to endothelial damages I think)

Oxymatrine, Tinidazole, Minocycline

Oxymatrine alleviates periodontitis in rats by inhibiting inflammatory factor secretion and regulating MMPs/TIMP protein expression1 - PubMed (nih.gov)

[Impacts of atovastatin and tinidazole on cardiac muscle inflammation factors of tumor necrosis factor-α, interleukin-1 and metalloproteinase-2 of experimental rabbits with atherosclerosis and periodontitis] - PubMed (nih.gov)

ijcem0104941.pdf

 

[pattismith]

Here my last experimentation with Tinidazole.

I just had a lip biopsy on J0 =Day0 (inside the lip), and I took Salicylic acid on J1(Day+1) because of headache, and ended with a big bruise.
I took Tinidazole on day J6 and the bruise is almost gone just 3 days after that at J9. (It would take several weeks to resolve if I had done nothing)

....

.............

 

[pattismith]

my bruise has totally disappear now at day 12. (but still I can feel the inflammatory bump where the white spot was)

Probably my MBL deficiency has something to do with over activity of metalloproteases and the vascular damages and inflammation that start when I have any hematoma....

MBL is a natural Metalloprotease inhibitor (and I don't have any MBL)

Mannan-Binding Protein Blocks the Activation of Metalloproteases Meprin α and β | The Journal of Immunology (jimmunol.org)

and MMPs contribute to MBL deficiency (this is weird circle!)

Mannose-binding lectin (MBL) mutants are susceptible to matrix metalloproteinase proteolysis: potential role in human MBL deficiency - PubMed (nih.gov)

 

[pattismith]

I found one patient with the same bruises I had in a case publication!

Unusual association between erythema nodosum and autoimmune atrophic gastritis​

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5878323/

so the kind of bruise I had at that time are similar to Erythema Nodosum
A lot of infectious or inflammatory diseases associated to EN are listed in the paper.
The common findings between me and this patient was low ferritin (6 ng/ml for this patient, 24 for me), and high CD4/CD8 (2.2 for this patient and 5 for me).
Vit B12 was in the lower normal range (I was also befor supplementation but I wasn't at the time when my EN showed up.

Both our cases enlight the role or iron deficiency in the showing up of EN in patients with some kind of inflammatory disease.

EN didn't come back after I supplemented heavily with iron and raised my ferritin level (and Transferin saturation coeficient)