Vitamin D and Butyrate or Resistant/Potato Starch?

xena

xena

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Hi all, do you have any feedback on this notion that resistant starch/ potato starch may support vitamin D activity in the body? Update- it seems like butyrate is key to this!

I'm curious since I seem to "not respond adequately" to like megadoses of vitamin D and experience it as being downregulated easily by vitamin A. i'd like to boost it to improve my immune system balance and antifungal immunity.

I see rat related research that alludes to resistant starch having related benefits but not anything human,even anecdotally:
Dietary resistant starch prevents urinary excretion of 25-hydroxycholecalciferol and vitamin D-binding protein in type 1 diabetic rats
Dietary resistant starch prevents urinary excretion of vitamin D metabolites and maintains circulating 25-hydroxycholecalciferol concentrations in Zucker diabetic fatty rats

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xena

xena

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I went down this whole huge rabbit hole on healing the gut microbiome - some are cautioning against taking just potato starch esp in dysbiotic states - and now I'm wondering about how to go about actually assessing and treating my microbiome. Wondering if anti microbials/feeding/seeding is sufficient or if I need to fast to get rid of old biofilm aka mucoid plaque.
 
Judee

Judee

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Ken Lassessen talks about the microbiome testing services on his site: https://cfsremission.com/top-microbiome-providers-with-discount-codes/

He gives discount codes and he is also supposed to have some type of partnership with biomesight where you can upload the data once they process your sample to his site for analysis.

I haven't done that but he talks about it HERE and I know that @godlovesatrier had this done. He maybe be able to tell you if it was helpful or not.
 
godlovesatrier

godlovesatrier

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@xena you'd be best off getting a 16s from biomesight, then following the instructions and once you get your results they will tell you things to add into your diet to help correct things. Then re-test after 2-3 months.

Good probiotics:

Solaray 24 strain
Dr Mercola Complete Probiotics

Quite a few other PWME have had good responses to the above probiotics, but they are extremely expensive, I'd suggest buying just one bottle of one brand.

As Judee says cfsremission and microbiomeprescriotion.com have discount codes for biomesight testing.
 
Judee

Judee

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A couple things to note: JAN50 is for the other site. MICRO is the discount code for biomesight. It works for either product but only up to a certain currency amount. (You can change the currency by clicking on the flag in the lower left hand side of the screen and selecting the closest match.)

You can't enter the coupon code until you put the product in your cart and then hit CHECK OUT.

Also the link he gives takes you to the login page. HERE is the product page.

Hope this isn't confusing. His site makes it kinda confusing and if you do choose to do this, I thought you would want to get the discount for sure.

This disease can get expensive. (I have no affiliation with his site or biomesight.)

Bless you @xena.
 
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R

RS Queen

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There is actually quite a lot of data on resistant starch - see www.ResistantStarchResearch.com for details on a lot of it (including the 289 published human clinical trials). I'm not sure there's enough human data to answer your question about Vitamin D, however, as you've already found some of it. See also https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S027153171500305X. And yes, resistant starch's fermentation in the large intestine produces the most butyrate of fermentable fibers tested (Cummings AJCN 2001) and there is a LOT of research underway to further investigate resistant starch's benefits in intestinal fermentation, intestinal permeability, insulin sensitivity, kidney biomarkers, lipid metabolism, advanced macular degeneration, Parkinson's disease, and more.
 
K

kangaSue

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I have chronic idiopathic gastroparesis and it comes with having significant intolerance issues around food and supplements, and couldn't tolerate any vitamin D supplements when this become deficient, nor hold onto it even from megadose injections (600,000 iu) when I also developed osteoporosis.

It wasn't until after I had been supplementing with taurine for a couple of months (because this was deficient in my diet) and then started a program of regular vit D injections (a megadose of 600,00 iu first, then 100,000 iu every 2 months) that my vit D level improved and is now in the optimal range, and bone mineral density has improved as well.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34024513/
 
Learner1

Learner1

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xena said:
Seems like butyrate/gut diversity is important for active vitamin d levels
Click to expand...
It is.
Judee said:
Ken Lassessen talks about the microbiome testing services on his site: https://cfsremission.com/top-microbiome-providers-with-discount-codes/

He gives discount codes and he is also supposed to have some type of partnership with biomesight where you can upload the data once they process your sample to his site for analysis.
Click to expand...
I tried his analysis and gave up when it recommended I eat glyophosate and high maize starch to improve my microbiome - I'm allergic to corn and glyophosate is carcinogenic. His "algorithm" takes a bunch of one off studies and tried to apply them but misses the boat on optimizing the microbiome community.

I've found Viome to offer more sensible suggestions on what to eat and what supplements to take to help the microbiome community.
godlovesatrier said:
Good probiotics:

Solaray 24 strain
Dr Mercola Complete Probiotics

Quite a few other PWME have had good responses to the above probiotics, but they are extremely expensive, I'd suggest buying just one bottle of one brand.
Click to expand...
Why these? How do you know that this is what your microbiome needs? What if it doesn't?

The Solaray one contains both corn and milk allergens. The Mercola one is pretty good with allergens.


But, they are the same lactobacillus and bifidobacteria strains that dominate the marketplace. What if you don't need these and need something else? What if you have an oxalate problem, triggered by antibiotic use, where the oxalates kill of all these nice bacteria? What if they don't colonize your gut at all? Most don't. These explain some of the challenges:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcimb.2019.00454/full

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcimb.2021.609722/full
 
M

Mumbo_Jumbo

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Learner1 said:
It is.
I tried his analysis and gave up when it recommended I eat glyophosate and high maize starch to improve my microbiome - I'm allergic to corn and glyophosate is carcinogenic. His "algorithm" takes a bunch of one off studies and tried to apply them but misses the boat on optimizing the microbiome community.

I've found Viome to offer more sensible suggestions on what to eat and what supplements to take to help the microbiome community.
Why these? How do you know that this is what your microbiome needs? What if it doesn't?

The Solaray one contains both corn and milk allergens. The Mercola one is pretty good with allergens.


But, they are the same lactobacillus and bifidobacteria strains that dominate the marketplace. What if you don't need these and need something else? What if you have an oxalate problem, triggered by antibiotic use, where the oxalates kill of all these nice bacteria? What if they don't colonize your gut at all? Most don't. These explain some of the challenges:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcimb.2019.00454/full

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcimb.2021.609722/full
Click to expand...


How do you find out if Oxolates are killing off bacteria?
 
Learner1

Learner1

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You can do a Great Plains OAT test or Geneva Diagnostics Metabolomix+ test or 24 hour urine oxalates test at a standard lab to identify that you have high oxalates. Then you could do a stool test like GI Effects or GI Map or Viome to see if you have any oxalobacter formigenes, lactobacillus or bifidobacteria strains, which typically get killed off by oxalates. See this thread for more info:

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/oxalates.79925/
 
YippeeKi YOW !!

YippeeKi YOW !!

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@xena

The biosynthesis of Vit D is heavily dependent on magnesium, and burns thru an enormous amount of it. In the absence of mag, most Vit D will move thru your system unabsorbed, and will also deplete any mag it can find, including in your bones, teeth, and tissues in the process, leaving you even more deficient.

You might want to google around for more info. I cant seem to find my files on this ....
 
M

Mumbo_Jumbo

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Learner1 said:
You can do a Great Plains OAT test or Geneva Diagnostics Metabolomix+ test or 24 hour urine oxalates test at a standard lab to identify that you have high oxalates. Then you could do a stool test like GI Effects or GI Map or Viome to see if you have any oxalobacter formigenes, lactobacillus or bifidobacteria strains, which typically get killed off by oxalates. See this thread for more info:

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/oxalates.79925/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I just checked back to my last stool test 4 years ago and my Oxalobacter formigenes were quite high (lactobacillus was also high, bifidobacteria was a little low) so at least back then it looks like I was metabolising oxalates ok.
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