'The world is headed for a post-antibiotic era,' WHO official warns. Also antiretroviral drugs.

[barbc56]

I find this particularly worrisome as I have been on two antibiotics for kidney infections after passing kidney stones in the past nine months as well as once for oral surgery. Fortunately, I am seeing a nephrologist next week. Not sure if I have developed resistance or result of kidney problems or both. I wouldn't think resistance as I have been on only a few antibiotics over the years.

There's also a mention about antiretroviral resistance.

In every region of the globe, health officials have witnessed “very high rates of resistance” to antimicrobial drugs designed to fight bugs like Escherichia coli, Staphylococcus aureus and Klebsiella pneumoniae, according to a new report. These bugs cause pneumonia and infections in the bloodstream, open wounds and the urinary tract.

—A growing number of people with HIV are finding that some antiretroviral drugs don’t work for them. In the United States, Europe, Australia and Japan an estimated 10% to 17% of patients who are just starting drug treatment are infected with a virus that’s resistant to at least one drug.

http://www.latimes.com/science/scie...esistance-who-warning-20140502,0,498494.story

 

[minkeygirl]

I saw that. Weren't they talking more about things that treat MERSA?

I'm on Keflex right now for a sinus infection.

 

[barbc56]

I think I have heard something about this. I'll have to look this up.

Barb

 

[Martial]

Yes, MRSA ( Staph), Pneumonia, all the really hard hitting and very fast replicating bacterial infections like these, and now apparently retro viruses as well..

This is what always worried me even in the cases of things like Chronic Lyme, I have not seen well yielded results to chronic antibiotic usage, IV antibiotics, and it has caused a lot of people I talk to more issues, though some are helped. with something like Borrelia it works to treat a slow growing bacteria without problems. It does however raise the risk of resistant infections of the fast spreading kind, and further raises risk for community shared resistant bacterial infections to grow.

The CDC has always erred on the use of long term antibiotics and said it off as to play these long term infections don't exist to not warrant the extended use, I find it better to say and in truth it is known it very well exists, we just need better options then trying to blast these infections away with long term antibiotics which further add toxicity to these patients. This is where a natural route of treatment has come into play, you get the same benefits and most even respond better then with pharm treatment, plus not having the inherit risks of pharmaceutical treatment.

Man, retro viral resistance sounds like a much harder egg to crack too, I hope they can find something to move in the direction for better healing in this too..

People should have access to something in the future that puts an end or cure to these things, rather then being dependent on long term therapies to control symptoms. That would be the ideal outcome, I just wish science could find things in new studies to make this happens.

 

[alex3619]

Poisoning strategies of highly replicating pests, whether viruses or weeds in crops, will always fail in the long run. Its called evolution.

 

[Oredogg]

Poisoning strategies of highly replicating pests, whether viruses or weeds in crops, will always fail in the long run. Its called evolution.

Well said.

There is much talk in the medical profession regarding the responsible use of antibiotics. Truth is, we can thank much of the antibiotic resistance to the agricultural industry (livestock, veterinary sources), who continue to use them in blatant disregard to feed our ever expanding population.

 

[barbc56]

The CDC has always erred on the use of long term antibiotics and said it off as to play these long term infections don't exist to not warrant the extended use, I find it better to say and in truth it is known it very well exists, we just need better options then trying to blast these infections away with long term antibiotics which further add toxicity to these patients. This is where a natural route of treatment has come into play, you get the same benefits and most even respond better then with pharm treatment, plus not having the inherit risks of pharmaceutical treatment.

I have to respectfully disagree with your statement. Natural does not mean better and herbs, supplements do indeed have inherent risks. Death is natural, but then so it birth. I wouldn't want to eat moldy bread to get my antibiotics, While I do have issues with Big Pharma the fact remains that many medications are derived from more "natural" forms you find in these same supplements and whatever is helpful is transferred to a medicine.

Furthermore, at least in the states, supplements are not regulated like pharmaceutical drugs which means they don't have to report any adverse effects. Quality control is not guaranteed and there are shady supplemental dealers who want a fast buck and will sometimes take a shortcut such as the fillers used. You aren't even guaranteed that what you buy is what you are getting and when that's true it's a confounding factor trying to figure out what is really working.

I am not saying supplements and herbs are never helpful,but Big Supps in the US is a 23 billion dollar industry and there are lots of lobbyist in the US who influence congress. ( Big Pharma also does this.).

If supplements were regulated, I would think the chance of getting studies done would increase. Lately there have been several studies showing that many vitamins, unless there is a deficiency, are not warranted.

Please understand that my definition of regulation of supplements does not mean taking away freedom of choice. It's all about quality control. Nor does it bother me that others take supplements.

The more information known the more informed the choice, but my choice, with the same information, may not be the same as other's choices and that is fine.

There are several data bases about supplements, side effects and interaction with other supps. and pharmaceutical medicine. I will come back and post them. I think there might be a thread about this on PR. i I will look and post it here at a later time. Is there a sticky? My memory is fogged.

In the meantime I have included some information below including an internet course called Food for Thought which includes various lectures about health and nutrition. Read what you want and take what you want from this information.

It's not my intention to debate or change anyone's mind but l to provide information. I am not a medical professional.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2014/01/13/the-top-six-vitamins-you-shouldnt-take/

http://www.reportlinker.com/ci02037/Vitamin-and-Supplement.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/21/how-lobbyists-will-keep-you-hooked-on-vitamins.html

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/22/orrin-hatch-the-supplement-industrys-lap/

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/food-for-thought/

Data Base for drugs and supplements.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements

Barb

 

[barbc56]

Well said.

There is much talk in the medical profession regarding the responsible use of antibiotics. Truth is, we can thank much of the antibiotic resistance to the agricultural industry (livestock, veterinary sources), who continue to use them in blatant disregard to feed our ever expanding population.

Good point!!!!
Barb

 

[Martial]

I have to respectfully disagree with your statement. Natural does not mean better and herbs, supplements do indeed have inherent risks. Death is natural, but then so it birth. I wouldn't want to eat moldy bread to get my antibiotics, While I do have issues with Big Pharma the fact remains that many medications are derived from more "natural" forms you find in these same supplements and whatever is helpful is transferred to a medicine.

Furthermore, at least in the states, supplements are not regulated like pharmaceutical drugs which means they don't have to report any adverse effects. Quality control is not guaranteed and there are shady supplemental dealers who want a fast buck and will sometimes take a shortcut such as the fillers used. You aren't even guaranteed that what you buy is what you are getting and when that's true it's a confounding factor trying to figure out what is really working.

I am not saying supplements and herbs are never helpful,but Big Supps in the US is a 23 billion dollar industry and there are lots of lobbyist in the US who influence congress. ( Big Pharma also does this.).

If supplements were regulated, I would think the chance of getting studies done would increase. Lately there have been several studies showing that many vitamins, unless there is a deficiency, are not warranted.

Please understand that my definition of regulation of supplements does not mean taking away freedom of choice. It's all about quality control. Nor does it bother me that others take supplements.

The more information known the more informed the choice, but my choice, with the same information, may not be the same as other's choices and that is fine.

There are several data bases about supplements, side effects and interaction with other supps. and pharmaceutical medicine. I will come back and post them. I think there might be a thread about this on PR. i I will look and post it here at a later time. Is there a sticky? My memory is fogged.

In the meantime I have included some information below including an internet course called Food for Thought which includes various lectures about health and nutrition. Read what you want and take what you want from this information.

It's not my intention to debate or change anyone's mind but l to provide information. I am not a medical professional.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2014/01/13/the-top-six-vitamins-you-shouldnt-take/

http://www.reportlinker.com/ci02037/Vitamin-and-Supplement.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/21/how-lobbyists-will-keep-you-hooked-on-vitamins.html

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/22/orrin-hatch-the-supplement-industrys-lap/

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/food-for-thought/

Barb

Very interesting, Yes I do agree that supplements can indeed be harmful as well and with their share of side effects. I am mainly referring to herbal extracts used to treat bacterial infections that have thousands of years in practical use though, although yes there can still be reactions and effects here they are generally much milder and transient then those caused by chemically altered drugs. Though some can have pretty nasty effects too it is important to really look into everything before jumping on any new pill, supplement, or herbal extract. Natural does not always mean better or safer, though for the majority of supplements these are also not natural but synthetically created which causes a lot of problems in and of itself, i.e. Folic Acid.

Sometimes even then certain infections do require pharm antibiotics, and also even Lyme in some cases, I just feel sometimes the regular antibiotics are too over prescribed without looking at other possibilities at the same time.


I am also not meaning to put down functional medicine either, it has proven very useful and also with inherit benefits compared to its risk profile. There are just certain things that can be troublesome for the community at whole and one of those is long term antibiotic use, over prescribed psychiatric drugs, improper labeling, cross contamination, etc. It is all a matter of balance and using our heads! Both places have their uses and can prove very beneficial but at the same time a degree of skepticism and awareness is always important.

 

[*GG*]

I have to respectfully disagree with your statement. Natural does not mean better and herbs, supplements do indeed have inherent risks. Death is natural, but then so it birth. I wouldn't want to eat moldy bread to get my antibiotics, While I do have issues with Big Pharma the fact remains that many medications are derived from more "natural" forms you find in these same supplements and whatever is helpful is transferred to a medicine.

Furthermore, at least in the states, supplements are not regulated like pharmaceutical drugs which means they don't have to report any adverse effects. Quality control is not guaranteed and there are shady supplemental dealers who want a fast buck and will sometimes take a shortcut such as the fillers used. You aren't even guaranteed that what you buy is what you are getting and when that's true it's a confounding factor trying to figure out what is really working.

I am not saying supplements and herbs are never helpful,but Big Supps in the US is a 23 billion dollar industry and there are lots of lobbyist in the US who influence congress. ( Big Pharma also does this.).

If supplements were regulated, I would think the chance of getting studies done would increase. Lately there have been several studies showing that many vitamins, unless there is a deficiency, are not warranted.

Please understand that my definition of regulation of supplements does not mean taking away freedom of choice. It's all about quality control. Nor does it bother me that others take supplements.

The more information known the more informed the choice, but my choice, with the same information, may not be the same as other's choices and that is fine.

There are several data bases about supplements, side effects and interaction with other supps. and pharmaceutical medicine. I will come back and post them. I think there might be a thread about this on PR. i I will look and post it here at a later time. Is there a sticky? My memory is fogged.

In the meantime I have included some information below including an internet course called Food for Thought which includes various lectures about health and nutrition. Read what you want and take what you want from this information.

It's not my intention to debate or change anyone's mind but l to provide information. I am not a medical professional.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2014/01/13/the-top-six-vitamins-you-shouldnt-take/

http://www.reportlinker.com/ci02037/Vitamin-and-Supplement.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/21/how-lobbyists-will-keep-you-hooked-on-vitamins.html

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/22/orrin-hatch-the-supplement-industrys-lap/

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/food-for-thought/

Data Base for drugs and supplements.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements

Barb

Do you work for big pharma or something? Use colloidal silver with your anti-biotic, that is what my Dr prescribed!

GG

 

[barbc56]

Do you work for big pharma or something? Use colloidal silver with your anti-biotic, that is what my Dr prescribed!

GG

Tell me where to sign up. I need the money!

Colloidal silver. Never!!!



Barb

 

[heapsreal]

They have spoken about antibiotic resistance for years(20+?) now but GP's have been prescribing the same antibiotics for years(some longer then 20yrs) and in general they continue to work. There doesnt seem to be any new antibiotics on the market that gp's prescribe, alot of the time its the gp's being blamed for overuse of abx. Honestly we should all be dead by now going by when the media started talking about abx resistance.

Now i believe it does happen but i think theres a big component of the media blowing things out of proportion. If one does have a severe infection and hospitalised then they have another source of stronger abx that arent available to gp's and controlled by the health system. Also when they talk about 'super' bugs killing people, i would like to see them divide those numbers into different groups eg i think many elderly(more vulnerable) probably die from these bugs and they have poor immunity as well as other underlying conditions from cardiac, diabetes etc the list can go on. Those not in the vulnerable group probably have a good immune system which needs to go hand in hand with abx killing infections.

Another thing i think which can happen is that certain abx kill certain bacteria, this allows other bacteria to develop and become dominant and this changes the bacterial environment. This could be 1 reason a particular abx stops working and i think the reason why another abx is used or a combination is used. In time if the initial bacterial some how make their way to the top and become the dominant bacteria, then the initial abx may work again. So i think alot of the time its the bacterial environment is the reason for a certain abx not working not neccessarily a certain bacteria become resistant to a certain abx.

I also guess that natural antibacterial supps could also develop resistance, so not always better.

Maybe they need to start looking at ways to improve ones immune function when sick. Maybe instead of just being on the attack(antibiotics), then need to also be on the defence(immune system)???

 

[heapsreal]

I just read the links posted above about vitamin studies etc.

One thing i dont understand is the anti vitamin people/docs etc say vitamins and minerals dont work but then say eat a balanced diet to get a variety of vitamins and minerals. Is that a contradiction??

I also like to return fire to those that say vitamin supps just make your urine expensive, with saying yeah but food makes your poo expensive too ??

I guess we just dont know, too many conflicting studies with many having their own interests involved.

 

[WillowJ]

I agree about the media blowing things out of proportion. However in addition to changing farming practices, doctors should do antibiotic resistance testing, especially in cases where they have time to wait 3 days to begin treatment, or do this testing along with beginning treatment, in cases when they might need to change antibiotics, then if so they will already know what to change to.

I also like to return fire to those that say vitamin supps just make your urine expensive, with saying yeah but food makes your poo expensive too ??

lol, this made me laugh out loud. and I agree. My doc prescribe me vitamins and minerals, and they change my blood tests and symptoms.

 

[heapsreal]

@WillowJ i guess its a cost thing about testing certain infections, but in the long run it would probably be a cost saving giving the right treatment from the start.

I remember reading something about acute sinus infections where this doctor said if they prescribe abx the infection will be gone in 5-7 days, if abx arent used then the infection will last 5-7 days. Interesting way to get his point across.

Maybe thats another option to tesing what bacterial infections are the issue, is time frame of an infection. If it hasnt cleared by a certain time frame then prescribe abx, eg acute sinus infection still severe after 7 days then treat with abx. i think i have read a few similar things like this??

 

[taniaaust1]

The CDC has always erred on the use of long term antibiotics and said it off as to play these long term infections don't exist to not warrant the extended use, I find it better to say and in truth it is known it very well exists, we just need better options then trying to blast these infections away with long term antibiotics which further add toxicity to these patients. This is where a natural route of treatment has come into play, you get the same benefits and most even respond better then with pharm treatment, plus not having the inherit risks of pharmaceutical treatment.

I have to respectfully disagree with your statement. Natural does not mean better and herbs, supplements do indeed have inherent risks. Death is natural, but then so it birth. I wouldn't want to eat moldy bread to get my antibiotics, While I do have issues with Big Pharma the fact remains that many medications are derived from more "natural" forms you find in these same supplements and whatever is helpful is transferred to a medicine.

Barb You've twisted alex's post I think without realising it. He didnt say that Natural necessarily means always better just that sometimes it can be, this is certainly true in some cases esp when somethings can be treated naturally without as harmful drugs. Sometimes natural therapies can also work more efficiently. I'll give an example of something which always worked in our house.

I had a daughter who would at times get ear infections as a baby, in fact she ended up with bursted eardrum due to this on 2-3 occassions even after she'd started antibiotics 1-2 days previously. I then learnt how to treat this myself the natural way.. using warm olive oil which had had crashed garlic in it and allowed to sit for a while and then strained throu muslin cloth and used as ear drops.

I can say from my experience with that that my child never got another bursted ear drum after that, this worked so quickly to clear up when she got a ear goozing out stuff. Antibiotics in her always took 5-7 days to fix her ear infections.. where as the garlic olive oil used in her ear would fix her within 12-24 hrs. It was a HUGE difference in efficiency. The doctors had been about to give my young child grommets in her ears due to her infection issues, so we didnt need those anymore either.

My other child had risky surgery (she was at risk each time of having her voice permanently damaged or even completely lost), surgery about 15-18 times and would of needed more!! (by this point the doctors had given up on it working so thought they would have to keep having to do it to remove HPV growths her body couldnt fight, on her vocal cords which would of blocked her airways). Rather then more surgery.. I ended up taking her to an accupuncturist. He incredibly fixed her issue in ONE SESSION!!

So with my kids, both my children avoided surgery only cause of natural therapies.

I do not think either he was refering to eatting moldy bread as in your comment, as a natural thing as a treatment instead of antibodics. Other common natural antibiotics are in use today and some are completely not harmful.. take olive leaf extract.. so you just eat it by the Tblespoon if you wanted. Many of the natural things used have passed the test of time and still can help today as they havent caused "resistance".
..................

Not sure if I have developed resistance or result of kidney problems or both. I wouldn't think resistance as I have been on only a few antibiotics over the years.

i personally didnt think resistance only worked like that. I think one can have drug resistance to certain antibiotics even if one hasnt had them before as its the bacteria transmitted from one person to another which can be also resistant cause someone took too many drugs previously with it (or just part drug treatment) leading to resistance. So the fact you have never taken or taken only a few times, doesnt necessarily mean a thing.

I myself never got sick as a child (I was abnormal in that way, no colds/flu's only severe EBV when I was a teen to which doctor didnt give me antibiotics for). In my adulthood I was into Natural therapies so didnt take them then either. Yet when I developed Staph and couldnt get rid of it by the normal things I take.. I ended up taking antibiotics for what may of been the first time. They thou tested the area first to see which one to give me.. imagine my shock when I found out that the Staph I had was almost resistant to nearly every one they tested it against. (I think they tested it against 9-11 different antibiotics and it was resistant to ALL of them except only 2 or 3).

Turned out that staph was still hard to kill in my body. Ive had it now in my nose and also in my leg, it being in my leg (it was turning parts of my leg black and putting me at risk of blood infection).. took about 2-3 antibiotic courses each time to get it to appear to go but then it would just come back a couple of months later. This issue went on for over a year. I FINALLY got rid of my staph by taking a combination of natural antibiotics (large doses of olive leaf extract) at the same time I was on antibiotics ..as neither of these were enough alone for the issue I had.

I'd hate to think of how I may now be with that if or probably when it appears again in future (Ive now been free of it for at least 5 years).. maybe its now immune to yet another of those antibiotics.

 

[alex3619]

Hi @taniaaust1, that was a quote from @Martial not me.

A primary mechanism for bacterial antibiotic resistance is well known. Bacteria have non-chromosomal DNA, in things called plasmids. They can transfer plasmids from one bacteria to another. This is not restricted to the same species. So if a bacteria comes into contact with a resistant bacteria you can get two resistant bacteria. Evolution takes care of the rest.

The days when antibiotics fail are coming. It wont happen all at once, and it wont be for all bacteria at once. Already between a third and a half of the population carry MRSA for example. I am one of them.

This does not mean we are helpless. Bleach and alcohol will still kill bacteria, as will iodine. However these are for external use - I don't recommend getting drunk to kill bacteria, it will probably do the opposite by stuffing the immune system even worse than the bacteria. A hundred or so years ago we had a simple way to deal with bacteria ... foot infection? Amputate! Hand infection? Amputate! Head infection? Amputate ... only kidding. These patients, as do those with internal organ infections, either die or recover on their own.

For the long term we need better strategies than antibiotics. This will probably require major technological advances.

 

[Valentijn]

I remember reading something about acute sinus infections where this doctor said if they prescribe abx the infection will be gone in 5-7 days, if abx arent used then the infection will last 5-7 days. Interesting way to get his point across.

Maybe thats another option to tesing what bacterial infections are the issue, is time frame of an infection. If it hasnt cleared by a certain time frame then prescribe abx, eg acute sinus infection still severe after 7 days then treat with abx. i think i have read a few similar things like this??

Except the reality is that now basically no antibiotics are getting prescribed even for chronic sinus infections. After about 6 months, a substitute GP gave me 10 days of antibiotics. It helped for a bit, then the infection came back, and my GP declared that it wouldn't make sense to try antibiotics again since they had "failed".

She gave me a new nose spray and told me to come back in 2 months if it didn't work. Message = "go away". I do a neti pot now, and anti-bacterial oils in a diffuser for a few days when the infection gets too nasty. I wouldn't bother with the GP for anything that isn't urgent.

 

[heapsreal]

Except the reality is that now basically no antibiotics are getting prescribed even for chronic sinus infections. After about 6 months, a substitute GP gave me 10 days of antibiotics. It helped for a bit, then the infection came back, and my GP declared that it wouldn't make sense to try antibiotics again since they had "failed".

She gave me a new nose spray and told me to come back in 2 months if it didn't work. Message = "go away". I do a neti pot now, and anti-bacterial oils in a diffuser for a few days when the infection gets too nasty. I wouldn't bother with the GP for anything that isn't urgent.

Can be hard to get abx when we need them too i guess. Many docs dont understand cfs/me in that we have poor immune function, so unlike 'normal'people who get sinus infection that recover on there own or after a 10 day abx course, we are 'special' and until our immune system functions properly may need to be on abx alot more often and for longer then others.

I have been on abx alot in the last few years for sinusitis, but i think what helps convince them to use abx is that the pressure in my frontal sinuses go up and increase my blood pressure. Maybe if i didnt get the high blood pressure i could manage it with nose sprays etc but somehow i think it would get worse as i always have low neutrophil counts and they fight bacterial infections. The risk of untreated sinusitis can be an abscess and possible brain infections/meningitis, these go along with the nice symptoms we already know about which are severe headache and face pain. Also sinusitis can cause fatigue just as bad as cfs, theres more then a few people who have been misdiagnosed with cfs and later it was sinusitis.

Sometimes i think we just dont realise how important it can be to treat these infections. pre abx it wasnt uncommon for people to lose their hearing after a severe ear infection or even issues with a strep throat. Because of abx, these infections are seen as being quite benign but they still have some risks of serious injury and illnesses. So antibiotics have prevented alot of serious complications that happened pre antibiotics.

Dammed if ya do or dammed if ya dont.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Truth is it is NOT doctors to blame it is factor farming and greedy for profit pharmaceutical companies

factory farming especially in the USA and Mexico, animals are fed antibiotics to help them bulk up and also kepe infections low in horrible cramped conditions
many animals are terribly inbred as well so are ripe places for diseases, see current pig virus epidemic
between antiobiotic traces in food and in rivers from waste, resistance builds

In Asia, most folk rely on little shops selling drugs, many of these have no clue or the drugs watered down, so they help breed resistance

thing is, as a LIE to the GMO crop bullshit, as we now know, duh!! virii and bacteria can *share genes* they end up passing on "survival tricks" so genetic info spreads vastly faster and in ways never thought possible
hence, factory farming has created a huge pool of material from which resistance sky rockets

it should be a *capitol crime* to abuse antibitoics as they have, as they *WILL* cause the deaths of millions of people. it was warned repeatedly for decades, but hey, Big Business puts profit above even species survival
Fed up with folk freaking out over things like terrorism, when pollution, pharma corps etc kill vastly more

"I don't' know what species is worse, at least you don't see them f****** each other over a ***** damn percentage!"