The Role of Psychotherapy in the Care of Patients with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

[SWAlexander]

Abstract

Myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue (ME/CFS) is a post-infectious, chronic disease that can lead to severe impairment and, even, total disability. Although the disease has been known for a long time, and has been coded in the ICD since 1969 (G93.3), medical research has not yet been able to reach a consensus regarding its physiological basis and how best to treat it. Against the background of these shortcomings, psychosomatic disease models have been developed and psychotherapeutic treatments have been derived from them, but their empirical testing has led to sobering results. According to the current state of research, psychotherapy and psychosomatic rehabilitation have no curative effect in the treatment of ME/CFS. Nevertheless, we see numerous patients in practices and outpatient clinics who suffer severely as a result of their illness and whose mental well-being and coping strategies would benefit from psychotherapeutic help. In this article, we outline a psychotherapeutic approach that serves this need, taking into account two basic characteristics of ME/CFS: firstly, the fact that ME/CFS is a physical illness and that curative treatment must therefore be physical; and secondly, the fact that post exertional malaise (PEM) is a cardinal symptom of ME/CFS and thus warrants tailored psychotherapeutic attention.

Continue reading: https://www.mdpi.com/1648-9144/59/4/719

 

[linusbert]

i was in a university hospital psychosomatic clinic. the doctors there belief that a person could freeze to death at room temperature if he beliefs to be in a cold storage room including physical freezing marks on the body. also they belief they can successfully treat cancer with psychotherapy.

this is the state of the system as of today.
we do not need any single cent more in the research of any treating psychiatric model for me/cfs patients. this and any cent is better spent in actual research finding the physiological cause and a treatment!

if a me/cfs patient really needs care for any mental issues, like depression or anything it surely is helpful to seek out help for treating depression. but then its only that... and not treating the me/cfs via some psychiatric models.
if a me/cfs patient seeks out a mental doctor for this, he should treat him like a regular patient who has a physiological disease like a broken leg. makes no sense to treat that with psychotherapy as well. but the trauma sure might be helped.

i do not belief in those studies. it just looks like a backdoor to somehow get a grip on those poor folks and do the lobotomy-.. eh sorry, i mean the "evidence based psychosomatic" therapies on them.

 

[Wishful]

the doctors there belief that a person could freeze to death at room temperature if he beliefs to be in a cold storage room including physical freezing marks on the body.

The proper response to that sort of belief is: prove it. That was probably a case of "someone said that someone said that ..." which if you followed all the way back to the origin, would find that it had no basis.

I agree that if someone with a disease needs therapy for the effects of being ill (lost confidence in self, wondering whether to give up on life, etc), they should seek appropriate help. I don't see there being any ME-specific treatments. Treating PEM by educating about pacing isn't psychotherapy (and doesn't require paying a professional therapist).

 

[PhoenixDown]

i was in a university hospital psychosomatic clinic. the doctors there belief that a person could freeze to death at room temperature if he beliefs to be in a cold storage room including physical freezing marks upon the body.

Sounds like they've seen The Matrix too many times. Seriously I'm sorry you were treated by these quacks, what country are you from?

 

[linusbert]

Sounds like they've seen The Matrix too many times. Seriously I'm sorry you were treated by these quacks, what country are you from?

i am from Germany.

 

[Vladimir]

i was in a university hospital psychosomatic clinic. the doctors there belief that a person could freeze to death at room temperature if he beliefs to be in a cold storage room including physical freezing marks on the body. also they belief they can successfully treat cancer with psychotherapy.

This does not sound unrealistic, actually. Our brains control almost everything in our bodies, and in some extreme cases this could lead to the phenomena described in this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Shereshevsky

 

[linusbert]

This does not sound unrealistic, actually. Our brains control almost everything in our bodies, and in some extreme cases this could lead to the phenomena described in this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Shereshevsky

his example was controlling heart rate when lieing rested by imagining things. everyone can do this with breathing exercises. this isnt anything special.

and the other stuff, healing people by imagining sickness away... sorry i am not buying it.

there were are lot of psy specialists..(telekinesis and telepathy tricks) coming from soviet countries during that era. the people were poor and did do anything to get some bucks. so i do not believe anything of this kind.
but its not only ex-soviets, this is a phaenomen in poor areas... a lot of those artists appear. and disappear when poverty in those areas declines.
chinese did something similiar with their monk and asian romantics they were selling to rich westerners. those practices also die out now as the country became rich.

am not saying everything those artists do is fake, some things can be acquired by intense training... and others are fake.

if this is real nontheless, i hereby put out a reward of 100.000$ for everyone imagining my sickness away.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

This does not sound unrealistic, actually.

both can be true at the same time.

I know I can psychosomatically induce an extreme physical manifestation because its happened to me.

I also know whats wrong here is VERY physically real and VERY wrong. Both can be true.

 

[linusbert]

both can be true at the same time.

I know I can psychosomatically induce an extreme physical manifestation because its happened to me.

I also know whats wrong here is VERY physically real and VERY wrong. Both can be true.

the psyche affecting the autonomous nervous system isnt something weird. actually makes sense.
also rewiring brain with training is possible.

but having frost burn marks on your skin... or exceeding physical capabilities which werent there before. not gonna happen.
if this were possible, why do suicidal folks end themselves painfully and sometimes not succeeding and disabling themselfes instead of just imagining to die... or the heart to stop. its just not working.

 

[Vladimir]

both can be true at the same time.

I know I can psychosomatically induce an extreme physical manifestation because its happened to me.

I also know whats wrong here is VERY physically real and VERY wrong. Both can be true.

I do know this from my personal experience too. There was a time when I could induce quite intensive pain through my leg just by a single thought (most often, not a voluntary one) of something I don't like. Luckily, it is not that bad now.

the psyche affecting the autonomous nervous system isnt something weird. actually makes sense.
also rewiring brain with training is possible.

but having frost burn marks on your skin... or exceeding physical capabilities which werent there before. not gonna happen.
if this were possible, why do suicidal folks end themselves painfully and sometimes not succeeding and disabling themselfes instead of just imagining to die... or the heart to stop. its just not working.

I agree, frost burns sound like an urban legend But exceeding everyday life physical capabilities in extreme situations is a well-known fact.

Our muscles are way stronger than we think. Our neural system prevents it from hurting the body by excessive contraction in our regular life, but it can also send a signal to a muscle to exceed this limit in a life-threatening situation for example.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Comment- having somebody to talk to about all this, who can simply listen and share some of the burden, this can have positive benefits for most of us. I've managed to hardly ever make it to a therapist appointment, so I actually am not very sure what they do. I liked the one I saw four times, she was just helping me with practical advice about the Practical Aspects of THIS.

or exceeding physical capabilities which werent there before. not gonna happen.

yet- sometimes this type of thing can occur.

The mother gains superhuman strength to lift the boulder off her fallen child. Later nobody can explain what happened.

We operate in a place where there are laws, like physics, but these laws can sometimes "be suspended". Overriden, set aside briefly or otherwise tampered with.

 

[linusbert]

yet- sometimes this type of thing can occur.

The mother gains superhuman strength to lift the boulder off her fallen child. Later nobody can explain what happened.

We operate in a place where there are laws, like physics, but these laws can sometimes "be suspended". Overriden, set aside briefly or otherwise tampered with.

i have never seen a mother lift a boulder from her child. the same as with the mental frozen guy thing. i say this is urban legend.
same as like the brain is only using like 10% capacity or what. hollywood comes up with this things all the time. i think this is as true as every car crashing against something, directly explodes.

i've seen women trying to carry a 6-pack of 1,5 liter bottles to the car, actually 2 women carrying it together with frequent breaks.. having a big struggle to carry like 9 kg. my friends used to carry 3 of those in each hand.
there is no reality in world were a person which struggles with 9kg, can somehow lift up 300kg now.
as long as she wasnt training for strongman or something like that she will not do it. well there are physics techniques to move heavy objects. so maybe this happens. a "boulder" sounds round... round things can roll. but then she is rolling and not lifting - i believe a adult female could do that.

but i believe the body can shortly overcoming physical security limits with enough adrenaline. access the hidden reserves over a unhealhy amount.
but even than, the body cannot use muscle which isnt there, so there are limits.

 

[ruben]

I have had this condition for decades, left with it after glandular fever. Although it's been a great struggle I have lived a pretty full life. Even being on holiday could be a struggle. Anyway, been married, had 2 sons, got divorced. 90% of the time worked. The only things I can really say I've learned about it are, alcohol makes me feel worse, over doing it makes me feel worse and eating makes me feel worse. But even doing none of these I still don't feel normal.

 

[Vladimir]

I have had this condition for decades, left with it after glandular fever. Although it's been a great struggle I have lived a pretty full life. Even being on holiday could be a struggle. Anyway, been married, had 2 sons, got divorced. 90% of the time worked. The only things I can really say I've learned about it are, alcohol makes me feel worse, over doing it makes me feel worse and eating makes me feel worse. But even doing none of these I still don't feel normal.

I feel you. 7 years for me. Zero alcohol for the past 5 years, extremely limited diet and would describe my condition as far far away from being normal

My philosophy is that it is just a matter of luck. Bad in our case - unlucky genetics, unlucky circumstances... Acceptance is a part of the healing process (to the possible extent of the one).

 

[Rufous McKinney]

i have never seen a mother lift a boulder from her child

I have directly observed overcoming Physics and personal limitations, but I haven't seen a mother lift a boulder.

the guy digging a trench in my yard, lifted this huge boulder all by himself, using a shovel and one stick. It almost seemed like he had overcome physics.

 

[linusbert]

the guy digging a trench in my yard, lifted this huge boulder all by himself, using a shovel and one stick. It almost seemed like he had overcome physics.

sounds like a fulcrum, thats physics and lever techniques. nothing superhuman.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

nothing superhuman.

Agree, that was physics.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Here is a nice applicable quote from another PR thread:

Here's the full quote as attributed to Escher...

Only those who attempt the absurd...will achieve the impossible. I think ...
I think it's in my basement...Let me go upstairs and check.” ― M.C. Escher

thanks, @YippeeKi YOW !!

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ry-and-chat-corner.88123/page-12#post-2430673

(I love the way the Escher Quote is ALSO so very Alice in Wonderland)

 

[linusbert]

i agree with optimism.
there is a reason narcissists and dellusional people are more successful in business life.
they just do it, and if they fail, its everyone else to blame. sounds sarcastic but actually this is a recipe for success.
just doing it, not thinking about it, trying over and over again.