The placebo effect explained

[Wishful]

https://newatlas.com/medical/placebo-effect-explained/

A discovery about the neural pathways involved in feeling relief from pain. The important point I see from this is that it shows actual physical mechanisms for what was previously considered "psychological stuff". So, when a doctor tells you that he can't find a physical reason for your feeling of fatigue or whatever, you can point to this study and say that there might be a similar mechanism involved that will someday be identified and accepted.

 

[*GG*]

Probably 1 of the last books I read, in hopes it would help. I do alright, but I still suffer!

GG

https://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Placebo-Making-Matter/dp/B0873XX6MB/ref=sr_1_1

 

[katabasis]

The important point I see from this is that it shows actual physical mechanisms for what was previously considered "psychological stuff".

All 'psychological stuff' has some kind of physical mechanism behind it (even if its location in the brain is obscure, subtle, or widely distributed), so the existence of such a mechanism doesn't really tell us much about the physical/psychological distinction. I'd offer that what we ought to refer to as 'psychological' are things that are, in principle, subject to conscious control (even if a specific person may not be able to exert this control). I think the placebo effect probably falls into this category - I'd bet you could train yourself to not experience the placebo effect.

Of course, none of this means a drug that modulates the placebo effect wouldn't be useful. All kinds of psychologically-affecting drugs are useful to us. The one putative placebo-modulator I'm aware of is proglumide, which I've actually taken, though I didn't notice much of an effect from it.

 

[Wishful]

All 'psychological stuff' has some kind of physical mechanism behind it

Yes, but all too many people assume that it's as you said "subject to conscious control", meaning "it's all your fault". Furthermore, it's assumed that it can be treated by "thinking yourself better". I like this study because the more of these physical mechanisms are revealed, the more likely the general public will stop blaming victims for these disorders.

 

[katabasis]

I'm not sure that the general public is basing their victim blaming on mistaken beliefs about the neurobiology of the victims. I think they're just jerks, and you're probably more likely to reach them on the human level, either helping connect with the subjective experiences of the victims, or helping them come to terms with their own psychological hang-ups.

That said, psychological disorders can in fact be treated by 'thinking yourself better'. It's just that this process is not short, simple or reliable. What exactly is the right way to think, and how to get a person to come around to thinking in that way, is the subject of ongoing study. Nonetheless, various forms of psychotherapy have efficacy in treating psychological disorders like anxiety, depression, personality disturbances etc. But of course, all of these disorders have a physical neurological component to them! This is why I think the 'conscious control' angle, which is what therapy is meant to elicit, is a better metric of what diseases are physical vs. psychological.

 

[hapl808]

I like this study because the more of these physical mechanisms are revealed, the more likely the general public will stop blaming victims for these disorders.

I think that's an unlikely outcome. I don't think these studies showing the mechanisms will even impact physicians, let alone the general public. It's not a unified theory, it's a nuance. Like FND: sure your symptoms are absolutely real, but…

This is why I think the 'conscious control' angle, which is what therapy is meant to elicit, is a better metric of what diseases are physical vs. psychological.

This is a better way to look at it. Maybe studies on the placebo effect will help us learn about the body and design better studies. It still amazes me that medicine needs to test against a sugar pill to figure out if something works - and even worse, they often don't even use inert placebos, so they can hide side effects.

Moving from there to 'now we understand none of these illnesses are mental' needs to cross a chasm, and it's unlikely to do so until a new generation of physicians learns new things - maybe 30-50 years (sorry for the cynicism, but I've been sick for 25 years).

The focus should be on what can be affected through conscious thought, versus what cannot. Yes, some people experience spontaneous remission from cancer, but few oncologists will recommend CBT and send you on your way. In this way, I think we could harness CBT, placebo effect, and many others things to help manage conditions, but they are bandaids, not a solution. If you have HIV, then CBT might help you with symptoms and even neurological aspects, but you're still likely to die if you don't get actual treatment.