Sulfate Insufficiency!?

[bad1080]

i hope i managed to get this in the right forum

so i was looking into things -as i'm sure we all do with what little energy we have- specifically SIBO this time around and i came across this:
https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/...-as-a-protective-adaptation-to-supply-sulfate
it offered a possible explanation for "why is SIBO?" and with it a new perspective, a paradigm shift if you will, in going from "what the body is doing is part of the problem and needs to be fixed" to "what the body is doing is part of its solution to a different problem".

while at the same time illuminating the drastic and far-reaching effects of sulfur insufficiency. then i found this: https://holisticprimarycare.net/top...nutritional-deficiency-you-ve-never-heard-of/
and it connected a lot of dots for me, sadly i can't find the threads now but somebody here was experimenting with different forms of vit.d3 and how they were working differently, not working or even counterproductive and then there was somebody else who got better by going into the sunlight at least for a bit every day. there is this:

Like vitamin D–the widely recognized “sunshine vitamin”–sulfate levels depend depend on sun exposure. It is synthesized from sulfide in the skin and red blood cells via a sunlight-dependent chemical reaction.

In the presence of sunlight, skin cells produce vitamin D3 sulfate, a water-soluble form of the typically fat-soluble vitamin D. The sulfate form can travel freely throughout the bloodstream. But the vitamin D3 found in oral supplements is an unsulfated form that requires low density lipoprotein (LDL) — the so-called “bad” cholesterol — for transport to receptor sites in the body.

and:

In addition to vitamin D, many other vitamins, hormones, and neurotransmitters must be sulfated for transport in the blood.

another big one is:

Sulfate [...] also prevents blood from coagulating during transit through capillaries.

Red blood cells produce cholesterol sulfate, which collects around the exterior of the cells and creates a negatively charged field around them. This aids their smooth passage through tiny capillaries.

then there is this, which by the sounds of it could at least contribute to leaky gut:

For example, gut bacteria are able to metabolise colonic sulfomucins to liberate sulfur compounds.

from: https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/sulfate-i-the-basics
and this could explain the poisoned feeling we get in general or especially in PEM:

Sulfation is needed for many important processes including phase two liver detoxification

i haven't reached the end of this yet but i wanted to share it as this issue seems generally underrepresented with me-cfs (a search for "sulfate" on r/cfs brought up 5 results - one of which was the second link) and i'd like to get some feedback from the smart folks on here.

thanks for reading and please share your thoughts!

(emphasis is mine)

 

[southwestforests]

which offered a new perspective, a paradigm shift if you will, in going from "what the body is doing is part of the problem and needs to be fixed" to "what the body is doing is part of its solution to a different problem".

Hmm ... interesting.
And the other stuff too.
This looks like it might be a thread to watch.

 

[bad1080]

some takeaways so far:

• molybdenum is an important cofactor in the sulfate metabolism (it is often included in multivitamins). "The sulfite-to-sulfate conversion relies on an enzyme called sulfite oxidase (SUOX) which uses molybdenum as a cofactor"
• supplying enough vit.B6 seems important too as "B6-deficient mice adapted by increasing the growth of sulfate-reducing bacteria" (which in turn can mine your intestinal mucosa for sulfur "sulfate-reducing bacteria [...] derive sulfur from dietary sources, but can also co-colonize other bacteria which are able break down the mucopolysaccharides in the gut lining as another source of sulfur (16)")
• epsom salt baths can help because they "contain both magnesium and sulfate" (i usually feel exhausted and drained after a bath but after one with epsom salts i felt rather relaxed (n=1)). i am guessing a foot bath with epsom salts could be an alternative for people for whom a full bath is out of the question.
• avoid glyphosate at all costs as it "is a potent chelator of molybdenum" (e.g. MMC or microcrystaline cellulose is often used as filler in pills and can be contaminated with glyphosate)
• going in the sun as much as you can tolerate and without getting sunburn but without sunscreen (i try to go on my balcony when the sun is out for 5-10mins each day).
• drinking a mineral water high in sulfate could be a good idea

all quotes from: https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/...-as-a-protective-adaptation-to-supply-sulfate

there is no RDA for it but "sulfate ingestion would almost always exceed 3 g/day as a result of sulfate ingestion in food and water, together with the sulfate produced in the body from metabolism."
from: https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/10925/chapter/9#428

interestingly a couple supplements commonly taken for me-cfs are on this list:

Here is a list of some sulfur-containing organic molecules found in the human body:

• Biotin, Pantothenine (vitamin B5), Thiamine (vitamin B1)
• Acetyl CoA + CoA
• Methionine, SAMe, Homocysteine
• Cysteine, NAC, Metallothionein
• Taurine, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Glutathione

from: https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/sulfate-i-the-basics

(emphasis added)

 

[Tammy]

I had a test done some years ago now. (can't even remember the name of test). Results showed that I needed organic sulfate but there was no explanation of why that I can remember and the Dr. who ordered the test had no clue. (he only ordered it because I asked him to.)

 

[bad1080]

I had a test done some years ago now. (can't even remember the name of test). Results showed that I needed organic sulfate but there was no explanation of why that I can remember and the Dr. who ordered the test had no clue. (he only ordered it because I asked him to.)

interesting, did you take anything after that (like a supplement), if so did it do anything for you and did you retest afterwards?

 

[Tammy]

interesting, did you take anything after that (like a supplement), if so did it do anything for you and did you retest afterwards?

From what I can remember I was having a hard time finding out what exactly organic sulfate was and what I would need to take so needless to say, that part of the puzzle wasn't solved.

EDIT: My memory was incorrect. Found some notes of mine and I did actually find out more pieces of the puzzle.

 

[bad1080]

From what I can remember I was having a hard time finding out what exactly organic sulfate was and what I would need to take so needless to say, that part of the puzzle wasn't solved.

you can refer to this list:

Here is a list of some sulfur-containing organic molecules found in the human body:

• Biotin, Pantothenine (vitamin B5), Thiamine (vitamin B1)
• Acetyl CoA + CoA
• Methionine, SAMe, Homocysteine
• Cysteine, NAC, Metallothionein
• Taurine, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Glutathione

from: https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/sulfate-i-the-basics

some of these are commonly taken for me-cfs like NAC or Glutathione
drinking a mineral water high in sulfate could also be a good idea (they can go as high as 1g/l of sulfate), unless it gives you diarrhea

 

[Tammy]

@bad1080 Apologies, my memory is shady and I meant to say inorganic sulfate. I guess I did actually find a piece of the puzzle. I dug around and found some old notes of mine from YEARS back. The following is taken directly from my notes.

I have overactive phase 1 and poor phase 2 liver detoxification, termed pathological detoxifier (lol). Results show depressed plasma sulfate.........sulfoxidation impairment (not being able to breakdown sulfites into sulphates (sulfite oxidase needed) Take Molybdenum?

I need inorganic sulfate supplements.

I have a sulfoxidation impairment which might contraindicate the use of NAC or Glutathione.

On the other hand..................I have low reduced Glutathione which needs supplementation of NAC.

Notes cont. Does this mean that raising glutathione levels will make my sulfoxidation impairment worse?

For reduced glutathione : consider
1)amino acids
2)NAC, L-methionine, L-glutamine
3) Vitamin b6, b12, Riboflavin, folic acid, Magnesium

Low SOD (super oxide dismutase) consider:
1)Manganese (mitochandrial SOD), zinc
2)CoQ10
3)ALA
4)Milk Thistle, catechin

The rest of the notes list foods and supplements that slow down phase 1 and help phase 2 liver detoxification.

 

[bad1080]

Take Molybdenum?

that would be a good idea from what i've read:
"The sulfite-to-sulfate conversion relies on an enzyme called sulfite oxidase (SUOX) which uses molybdenum as a cofactor"
it is often found in multivitamins (so you might already be supplementing it)

reduced Glutathione which needs supplementation of NAC

you can take glutathione right away (it is available in a reduced form too), NAC is a precursor of glutathione but NAC has a higher bioavailability. so it might be worth trying both and see what works for you.

 

[Tammy]

from: https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/sulfate-i-the-basics

This is great information...............thanks.

 

[bad1080]

help phase 2 liver detoxification

an impaired liver detox could explain the poisoned feeling we get (in general or especially in PEM):

Sulfation is needed for many important processes including phase two liver detoxification

(from the same link)

 

[bad1080]

another thing my brain just connected is a thread about "supplement poop-out" here: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/supplement-poop-out-a-discussion.92232/
(where a supplement has an effect at first but then stops working after some time, something people with me-cfs often experience) and this:

In addition to vitamin D, many other vitamins, hormones, and neurotransmitters must be sulfated for transport in the blood. Sulfate transport, says Seneff, ranks among the most important bodily functions these various substances perform.

from: https://holisticprimarycare.net/top...nutritional-deficiency-you-ve-never-heard-of/

it may be due to depletion of sulfate (or a cofactor like molybdenum), the supplement is working as long as there is still some sulfate/molybdenum left and once it is depleted it can't be transported to where it's needed and stops working

 

[bad1080]

idk how to ping people and i'd rather not do it at all but at the same time i'd love to hear what @Hip has to say to this?

edit: i guess it worked

 

[bad1080]

This system [...] is connected by integrins through the cellular membrane, and other supporting linking proteins such as MAP2 and fibronectin. [...] this system creates a “living matrix” of semiconducting macromolecules that are able to transmit, store, and process information involved in regulation.”

from: https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/sulfate-ii-the-living-matrix-and-structured-water

and according to Prusty et al. this is the system that breaks down after an EBV infection/reactivation (that is if i understand it correctly):

Here we show antibody response to herpesvirus dUTPases, particularly to that of Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) and HSV-1, increased circulating fibronectin (FN1) levels in serum and depletion of natural IgM against fibronectin ((n)IgM-FN1) are common factors for both severe ME/CFS and long COVID. We provide evidence for herpesvirus dUTPases-mediated alterations in host cell cytoskeleton, mitochondrial dysfunction and OXPHOS.

from: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37425897/
(as an aside: it's depressing how this has been out for over a year now and still hasn't been peer-reviewed)

and:

The cells lining the blood vessels have a thick, fuzzy coating on their external membranes called the endothelial glycocalyx layer, which is rich in sGAG projections - particularly heparan sulfate proteoglycans.

from: https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/sulfate-iii-its-all-about-blood-flow-why-sulfation-is-prioritised
connects to:

Mounting evidence suggests that SARS-CoV-2 infection leads to multiple instances of endothelial dysfunction, including [...] glycocalyx/barrier disruption

from: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41401-022-00998-0

(emphasis added)

 

[Hip]

idk how to ping people and i'd rather not do it at all but at the same time i'd love to hear what @Hip has to say to this?

Dr Stephanie Seneff is well known for making bold medical claims without providing much proof. It's easy to claim that sulphate deficiency is the cause of diseases X, Y and Z. But where is the evidence?

Listing lots of metabolic pathways where sulphate is involved does not prove much. One could list all the pathways where magnesium is involved, for example, and there would be hundreds, but that does not mean much either.

I used to apply saturated magnesium sulphate to my skin from head to toe, several times a day, when I was using this to supply high doses of magnesium to help reduce anxiety. As well as providing magnesium, this would have also provided a lot of sulphate. But I found no benefits for my ME/CFS, IBS, or anything else.

 

[bad1080]

Dr Stephanie Seneff is well known for making a lot of bold medical claims without proving any proof. It's easy to say that sulphate deficiency is the cause of diseases X, Y and Z. But where is the evidence?

Listing lots of metabolic pathways where sulphate is involved does not prove much. One could list all the pathways where magnesium is involved, for example, and there would be hundreds, but that does not mean much either.

I used to apply saturated magnesium sulphate to my skin from head to toe, several times a day, when I was using this to supply high doses of magnesium to help reduce anxiety. As well as providing magnesium, this would have also provided a lot of sulphate. But I found no benefits for my ME/CFS, IBS, or anything else.

thank you for your input!
i am not saying sulfate insufficiency is the root cause for me-cfs (and i am pretty sure seneff doesn't either but i haven't read much by her yet) but it could be a contributing factor on many levels (like an increased demand after viruses like sars-cov2 ravaging your endothelium or EBV infecting it, blood clotting, fibronectin, supplement poop-out, leaky gut etc.). it's not like we have many solid leads to the pathology of me-cfs (a year after publication the study by Prusty et al. is still not peer-reviewed), so thinking about them (and trying stuff ourselves) is the next best thing we have.
magnesium is a vital substance, absolutely! but many are already taking it and it is widely known to be of importance so it is brought up frequently. sulfate insufficiency on the other hand i've never even heard of before i stumbled across this, so i am guessing many more haven't either. its cofactor molybdenum is probably even less known.
if somebody now said "magnesium did nothing for me" would that lead you to believe it was not important?

 

[pamojja]

@bad1080 did you find any lab markers of signs of sulfate deficiency?

edit: asked perplexity.ai first:

There are no specific blood tests that directly measure sulfate levels or detect sulfate deficiency. However, there are a few indirect ways that sulfate metabolism can be assessed through blood tests:

1. Sulfate-containing compounds: Levels of sulfate-containing compounds like glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) and cholesterol sulfate can be measured in blood, but these are not specific markers of sulfate deficiency

• Sulfotransferase enzyme activity: The activity of sulfotransferase enzymes, which require the sulfate donor PAPS for sulfonation reactions, could potentially be used as an indirect marker of sulfate status. However, this is not a routine clinical test
• Amino acid profile: Since sulfur-containing amino acids like cysteine and methionine are involved in sulfate metabolism, an amino acid profile blood test may provide some clues about sulfur metabolism, but would not specifically diagnose sulfate deficiency
• Genetic testing: Mutations in genes involved in sulfate transport and activation, like SLC13A1 and PAPSS2, could potentially be used to identify individuals at risk for sulfate deficiency, but this is not a standard clinical test

In summary, while sulfate is an important nutrient, there are no readily available blood tests to directly diagnose sulfate deficiency. Clinicians would need to rely on assessing symptoms, dietary intake, and ruling out other potential causes of impaired sulfate metabolism. More research is needed to develop better biomarkers for assessing sulfate status.

Sulfate is generally not considered an essential nutrient for humans because it is typically assumed to be sufficiently present in the diet. However, there is evidence in the literature suggesting that conditional sulfate deficiency states can occur under certain circumstances.

Conditional Sulfate Deficiency​

1. Nutrient Interactions: Research indicates that sulfate plays a significant role in the overall nutrient balance within plants. For example, sulfur deficiency can lead to impaired growth and affect the uptake of other essential nutrients such as potassium, molybdenum, and zinc. These interactions suggest that while sulfate may not be essential in a conventional sense, its deficiency can lead to secondary deficiencies of other nutrients, which could be considered a form of conditional deficiency

• Soil Availability: Sulfate is primarily found in soil as a water-soluble anion, but its availability can be limited due to leaching and the organic matter content of the soil. The mineralization of organic sulfur to sulfate is a microbial process that can be influenced by environmental conditions. In soils with poor microbial activity or unfavorable conditions, the conversion of organic sulfur to sulfate may not occur efficiently, potentially leading to sulfate deficiency in plants
• Plant Growth and Development: Sulfur is crucial for various physiological processes, including protein synthesis and metabolic functions. A lack of sulfate can lead to stunted growth and reduced yield in plants, indicating that while sulfate may not be essential in the same way as macronutrients, its deficiency can have significant adverse effects on plant health and, by extension, on the animals and humans that rely on these plants for nutrition

Conclusion​

While sulfate is not classified as an essential nutrient due to its presumed adequate presence in the diet, conditions such as poor soil quality, microbial activity, and nutrient interactions can lead to situations where sulfate deficiency becomes a concern. This suggests that monitoring sulfate levels in both agricultural practices and human diets could be beneficial, particularly in regions where soil conditions may limit its availability.

The metabolism of sulfur and sulfate involves distinct biochemical pathways and roles in biological systems. Here’s a breakdown of their differences and the relationship between sulfur and sulfate.

Differences in Metabolism: Sulfur Metabolism​

1. Forms and Oxidation States: Sulfur can exist in various oxidation states, ranging from -2 (as in sulfide) to +6 (as in sulfate). It is metabolized by all living organisms, including bacteria, plants, and animals, through both oxidative and reductive pathways

• Reduction and Assimilation: In plants and some microorganisms, sulfur is taken up as sulfate (SO₄²⁻) and then reduced to sulfide (S²⁻) before being incorporated into organic compounds like cysteine and methionine. This process is known as assimilatory sulfate reduction, where sulfate is activated and reduced to form essential biomolecules
• Energy Production: Certain bacteria can oxidize sulfur compounds to derive energy, using sulfur as an electron donor in anaerobic respiration. This process involves enzymes that convert sulfur to sulfate, contributing to the sulfur cycle in various ecosystems

Sulfate Metabolism​

1. Sulfate as a Nutrient: Sulfate is primarily obtained from the diet or soil and is essential for the synthesis of sulfur-containing amino acids and coenzymes. It is a stable form of sulfur that requires activation for incorporation into biological molecules

• Activation and Reduction: Sulfate must first be activated by ATP sulfurylase to form adenosine 5′-phosphosulfate (APS) before it can be reduced to sulfite (SO₃²⁻) and then to sulfide (S²⁻). This reduction is a critical step in sulfur assimilation for plants and microorganisms
• Role in Biological Processes: Sulfate is involved in various biosynthetic pathways, including the formation of glucosinolates in plants, which are important for plant defense and nutrient cycling

Sulfur Content in Sulfate​

The molecular formula of sulfate (SO₄²⁻) indicates that each sulfate ion contains one sulfur atom. Therefore, the amount of sulfur in sulfate is 100% of the sulfur content by the number of sulfur atoms present in the sulfate ion.In summary, while sulfur and sulfate are closely related, their metabolic pathways differ significantly, with sulfur being involved in both energy production and the synthesis of organic compounds, whereas sulfate primarily serves as a nutrient that is activated and reduced for biological utilization.

Sulfate plays a crucial role in various enzymatic reactions in the human body, primarily through its involvement in sulfonation and sulfurylation processes. Here are the main enzymatic reactions dependent on sulfate:

Key Enzymatic Reactions Involving Sulfate​

1. Activation of Sulfate to PAPS:
   • Inorganic sulfate (SO₄²⁻) is activated by ATP to form 3′-phosphoadenosine-5′-phosphosulfate (PAPS) through the action of ATP sulfurylase. This reaction requires magnesium ions and is a critical step in the utilization of sulfate in metabolic pathways

• Sulfotransferase Reactions:
  • PAPS serves as the primary sulfate donor in sulfotransferase reactions. These enzymes transfer sulfate from PAPS to various substrates, including carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins, leading to the formation of sulfated compounds. This process is essential for the synthesis of glycosaminoglycans, which are vital for cartilage and connective tissue maintenance, and for the detoxification of xenobiotics in the liver
• Sulfatase Reactions:
  • Sulfatases catalyze the removal of sulfate groups from sulfonated compounds. This process is crucial for the metabolism of glycosaminoglycans and other sulfated molecules, impacting cellular signaling and homeostasis
• Methionine Synthase Reaction:
  • Sulfate metabolism is also indirectly involved in the methionine synthase reaction, where methyl groups are transferred to homocysteine to form methionine. This reaction is dependent on the availability of sulfur-containing compounds

Summary​

In summary, sulfate is integral to several enzymatic reactions in the human body, particularly through its conversion to PAPS and its subsequent role as a sulfate donor in sulfotransferase reactions. These processes are vital for the synthesis and metabolism of various biomolecules, influencing numerous physiological functions and maintaining overall health.

The estimated metabolic need for sulfate in the human body is not precisely quantified, as there is no established Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) or Estimated Average Requirement (EAR) for sulfate itself. However, several factors contribute to understanding sulfate requirements:

Sources of Sulfate​

1. Dietary Intake: Humans obtain sulfate from dietary sources, including processed foods, vegetables, and drinking water. The average adult is estimated to receive more than 16 mmol of sulfate per day from these sources

• Amino Acid Metabolism: A significant portion of sulfate is derived from the metabolism of sulfur-containing amino acids, primarily methionine and cysteine. These amino acids contribute to sulfate production through protein turnover, which supplies over half of the sulfate needed for metabolic processes

Metabolic Functions​

Sulfate is crucial for the synthesis of 3′-phosphoadenosine-5′-phosphosulfate (PAPS), which is necessary for various biochemical reactions, including the formation of glycosaminoglycans and other sulfated compounds.

Absorption and Excretion​

Sulfate is absorbed in the small intestine, and the body maintains sulfate homeostasis through renal reabsorption mechanisms. The solute carrier family proteins (SLC13A1 and SLC26A1) play vital roles in sulfate transport and retention in the bloodstream.

Conclusion​

While specific sulfate requirements are not defined, it is clear that adequate intake of sulfur-containing amino acids and dietary sulfate is essential to meet metabolic needs. Normal protein intake, which includes sufficient methionine and cysteine, generally ensures that sulfate levels are adequate for physiological functions. Thus, sulfate needs are typically met through a balanced diet rich in protein.

To convert 16 mmol of sulfate to grams, we need to know the molar mass of sulfate (SO₄²⁻).The molar mass of sulfate can be calculated from the atomic weights of its constituent elements:

• Sulfur (S): 32.07 g/mol
• Oxygen (O): 16.00 g/mol

The molar mass of sulfate is:
32.07 g/mol (S) + 4 × 16.00 g/mol (O) = 96.07 g/molNow, to convert 16 mmol to grams:16 mmol × (96.07 g/mol) / 1000 mmol/mol = 1.537 gTherefore, 16 mmol of sulfate is equivalent to approximately 1.537 grams.

Certain diseases and symptoms can indicate a likelihood of sulfate deficiency, particularly those related to sulfur metabolism and the functioning of sulfatases. Here are some conditions and symptoms associated with potential sulfate deficiency:

Conditions and Symptoms Suggestive of Sulfate Deficiency​

1. Multiple Sulfatase Deficiency (MSD):
   • This genetic disorder results in the inability to activate sulfatase enzymes, leading to a range of symptoms including neurological impairment, skeletal abnormalities, and skin issues like ichthyosis (dry, scaly skin). Symptoms vary by type but generally include developmental delays, joint stiffness, and coarse facial features, indicating a systemic impact of impaired sulfate metabolism

• Joint Pain and Connective Tissue Disorders:
  • Sulfate is essential for synthesizing connective tissues, including cartilage, tendons, and ligaments. A deficiency may contribute to joint pain or diseases, as sulfate is involved in the formation of glycosaminoglycans, which are critical for joint health
  • .
• Reduced Protein Synthesis:
  • Sulfur-containing amino acids, such as methionine and cysteine, are vital for protein synthesis. A lack of these amino acids due to insufficient sulfate can lead to reduced protein synthesis, potentially impacting muscle health and overall metabolism
  • .
• Impaired Detoxification:
  • Sulfate plays a role in detoxifying xenobiotics in the liver. Symptoms of impaired detoxification may include increased sensitivity to medications or environmental toxins, suggesting a potential deficiency in sulfate availability for sulfation reactions.
• Skin and Hair Issues:
  • Since sulfur is a component of keratin, deficiencies may manifest as hair loss, brittle hair, or skin conditions. Symptoms like dry skin and excessive hair growth (hirsutism) may indicate metabolic issues related to sulfate
  • .
• Growth Delays:
  • In children, inadequate sulfate may lead to growth delays, as sulfate is crucial for various metabolic processes, including those involved in cellular growth and repair

Conclusion​

While there are no direct laboratory markers for sulfate deficiency, the presence of these symptoms and conditions can suggest a likelihood of deficiency. It is essential to consider the broader context of sulfur metabolism and its impact on various physiological functions when evaluating potential sulfate deficiency in individuals.

No, a high 25(OH)D3 (vitamin D) serum level and high LDL cholesterol would not necessarily indicate low cholesterol sulfate levels. Here's why:

1. Cholesterol sulfate is regulated independently: The synthesis and metabolism of cholesterol sulfate are regulated independently from vitamin D and LDL cholesterol levels. Factors that influence one do not necessarily affect the others

• Cholesterol sulfate is a minor component: In blood, cholesterol sulfate is a minor sterol constituent, with a cholesterol-to-cholesterol sulfate ratio of approximately 500:1. Even significant changes in cholesterol sulfate levels would not impact total cholesterol or LDL measurements
• Separate testing is required: As mentioned earlier, cholesterol sulfate levels are not part of standard lipid panels and require specialized testing using techniques like liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry (LC-MS). High 25(OH)D3 or LDL levels do not automatically trigger testing for cholesterol sulfate
• Cholesterol sulfate is synthesized in the skin: Cholesterol sulfate is synthesized from cholesterol in the skin via a sunlight-dependent reaction, not from vitamin D metabolites in the blood

In summary, while vitamin D and cholesterol are involved in various physiological processes, high 25(OH)D3 and LDL levels do not directly indicate low cholesterol sulfate levels. Cholesterol sulfate is regulated independently and requires specific testing to assess its status. More research is needed to establish clear relationships between these different cholesterol-related molecules.

Here are the sources related to sulfate metabolism and its implications:

1. Sulfur Metabolism Overview: This source discusses the metabolism of hydrogen sulfide to sulfate and the metabolic pathways involved in sulfur metabolism. It provides a foundational understanding of how sulfate is utilized in various biological processes. ScienceDirect

• Metabolic Pathways of Sulfate Reduction: This article reviews recent advances in the metabolic pathways of sulfate reduction in intestinal bacteria, highlighting the importance of sulfate in synthesizing amino acids and its role in various organisms. NCBI
• Impaired Sulfate Metabolism: This paper proposes a link between impaired sulfate metabolism and various conditions, including autism, and discusses the importance of sulfate in detoxification and metabolic processes. MDPI
• KEGG Pathway for Sulfur Metabolism: This reference pathway details the sulfur metabolism processes, including the assimilation and dissimilation of sulfate, and the enzymes involved in these pathways. KEGG
• Wikipedia on Sulfur Metabolism: This entry provides a comprehensive overview of sulfur metabolism, discussing its role in various organisms, the oxidation and reduction processes, and its significance in human health. Wikipedia

These sources collectively provide insights into sulfate metabolism, its importance in biological systems, and the potential implications of sulfate deficiency.

I still find it very likely that high LDL could be an indication for low cholesterol sulfate (beside other nutrients, as for the transport of other fat-soluble nutrients). But now much to check first.

By the way, don't think in my case_ I get about 1.5 g of Sulfate mainly from high Mg-Mineral water, very high in sulfate (2.2 g/l), MSM (34% sulfate), Chondroitin sulfate (7%) and Glucosamine sulfate (21%). Dietary sources of sulfur containing amino-acid aside.

The main co-factor nutrients involved in human sulfate metabolism include:

1. S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAM): This is a key methyl donor in various biological methylation reactions and is synthesized from methionine. It plays a crucial role in the metabolism of sulfur-containing compounds.
2. Coenzyme A: This cofactor is vital for the metabolism of fatty acids and the synthesis of acetyl-CoA, which is involved in various metabolic pathways, including the synthesis of cholesterol and other lipids.
3. Biotin and Thiamine: These vitamins contain sulfur and are important for various metabolic processes, including energy metabolism and the synthesis of fatty acids.
4. Lipoic Acid: This cofactor is involved in mitochondrial energy metabolism and has antioxidant properties. It plays a role in the metabolism of pyruvate and alpha-ketoglutarate.
5. Molybdenum Co-factor (MoCo): This is essential for the activity of certain enzymes involved in sulfur metabolism, including sulfite oxidase.
6. Glutathione: While not a cofactor in the traditional sense, glutathione is a critical antioxidant that contains sulfur and is involved in the detoxification of reactive oxygen species and the metabolism of sulfur-containing compounds.

These nutrients are essential for the proper functioning of enzymes involved in the assimilation and metabolism of sulfate in the body, highlighting the interconnectedness of sulfur with various metabolic pathways.For further details, you can refer to the sources provided:

• Sulfate Metabolism Overview
• Important sulfur-containing cofactors and vitamins
• Essential nutrients and their roles

Here are the sources related to co-factor nutrients in human sulfate metabolism:

1. Sulfur-Element Containing Metabolic Pathways in Human Health: This article discusses the roles of sulfur in human health, including the importance of methionine, cysteine, and various B vitamins in sulfate metabolism. NCBI
2. Sulfate Metabolism: This source provides an overview of sulfate metabolism and highlights the importance of sulfur-containing cofactors such as S-adenosyl-L-methionine, coenzyme A, and lipoic acid. NCBI
3. Sulfur Metabolism and Sulfur-Containing Amino Acids: This review article discusses various sulfur metabolic pathways and the significance of sulfur-containing amino acids in human physiology. ARPI
4. Overview of Sulfur Metabolism: This overview from ScienceDirect provides insights into the major sites of sulfur metabolism and the role of sulfur in various biochemical processes. ScienceDirect
5. Important Sulfur-Containing Cofactors and Vitamins: This ResearchGate article highlights various sulfur-containing biomolecules and their essential roles in cellular functions. ResearchGate

These sources collectively provide insights into the co-factor nutrients involved in human sulfate metabolism and their significance in various physiological processes.

My glutathione peroxidase is maxed out on lab tests, Molybdenum, B1, B2 and ALA I regularly supplement

 

[bad1080]

@bad1080 did you find any lab markers of signs of sulfate deficiency?

no, i had to ask my doc several times to get a stool sample analyzed (which then showed drastically(!) lowered fecal elastase...) so i mainly rely on self-treatment and finding answers that way.

thanks for the rest but i don't trust ai to tell me how many fingers i'm holding up, much less with medical information. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination_(artificial_intelligence)

i drink a mineral water high in sulfate too, so i should get about 1.5g per day just through that too. but since we don't have an RDA it's hard to say how much is needed, just that it "regularly exceeds 3g per day" and the upper limit seems to be where it causes diarrhea (up to 12 or 16g or something like that). and then the RDA would be for a healthy person not for one in deficit, testing seems to be difficult like you said and what about all the pathways it influences and how long it'd take to reverse their disruption, the cofactors and glyphosate and...

it's good to hear you have an eye on your sulfate intake and obviously sad you still have me-cfs. like i said i don't think it's a cause but i think it could be a contributing factor for many of us, especially since only few know and talk about it.

B1, B2 and ALA I regularly supplement

what's ALA? is that a Lipoic Acid?

 

[pamojja]

I don't trust ai either, but sometimes its good to check one's own misunderstanding very fast, and never to stop thinking critically.

I was lucky, first got rid of symptoms of a COPD diagnosis 12 years ago, a walking-disability from PAD 8 years ago, and finally constant PEMs (I still worked part-time) 5 years ago. As retold here.

To keep all in remission, its of course a continuous effort. I still can work part-time only, but no more PEMs with overexertion.

Yes alpha lipoic acid.

 

[Hip]

i am not saying sulfate insufficiency is the root cause for me-cfs

You can certain try sulphur or sulphate supplementation, but I've never come across much in the way of beneficial effects from this, so I would not invest too much hope.

Dog owners I believe sometimes give their pets sulphur, as it makes their fur shiny.