Reverse therapy is helping me a lot

[Sophiedw]

After just 2 sessions of reverse therapy I am feeling the best I have since the beginning of my cfs journey (brought on in part by probiotic).

Just bumping this treatment modality in case users haven't heard about it. Learning about it and getting the sessions remotely isn't hugely costly compared to all the supplements/other alternative therapies over the years.

I was probably only mild/moderate at my worst but it could surely bring some extra level healing to those more severe even if it's not a cure.

I have found I need to take some aspects of the speil with a pinch of salt, but true healing has come about by trying to understand the core of what it's trying to do. I.E. (in my case) talk/listen to my body in a meditative state trying to convey specific messages.

It all sounds so wishy washy I know! Having been completely obsessive about supplements for several years having done FREDDDs protocol and many more (also from a biomedical science background go figure). But there we are! It's working! And it feels like it is working from the fundamentally right place.

 

[Sophiedw]

Also those 2 sessions have been over 6 weeks with tumultuous progress. I'll report back in another 6 to see if healing continues.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Sophiedw
This sounds really, really interesting. If you can, would it be possible to post a link to more info on this, not just for me, but for all the other members here who, I'm pretty sure, will find this as intersting as I did.

Thank you for posting this info. This crappy little bottom-feeder of an illness defies so many treatment protocols that anything new is welcome, whether it works for everyone or not, whether it's Western medically-approved or not, and whether or not it comes with the "pinch of salt" caveat or not. This illness, with all of its individual quirks and permutations, requires open-mindedness in the evaluation of potential helpers unless we want to be forever tethered to its pain and limitations.

Thank you again !!!

 

[gbells]

I read the reverse therapy website to get an idea what it is based on. It is a psychosomatic psychological therapy based on the false idea that ME is a somatoform (mental) disorder and that it can be cured through specific Reverse Therapy treatment. There are a few testimonials labelled Case Studies on the website claiming improvement.

Our core insight is that non-specific illnesses result from a breakdown between Bodymind (centred on the limbic system) and the Critical Mind (centred on the frontal lobes). When this occurs the individual fails to adapt properly to life-challenges leading to unresolved emotions, anxiety, or to daily frustrations. As Bodymind notices this it creates alarm signals in the form of symptoms in order to call for change. Reverse Therapy focuses on understanding and working with these messages and identifying the changes required.

What is strange about the rationale is that it says that the primary cause of the somatic problem is a dysfunction between the brain's ability to regulate feelings (termed the Bodymind and located in the limbic system) and the decision making and planning part of the brain (frontal lobe).

One big problem I see with these Case Studies is that they are solicited and show a bias in the author to only seek people who confirm his therapy.

At the end of your book, -'ME, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia - The Reverse Therapy Approach', you mention that you would like anyone who has been helped by your book alone to contact you. -Ms. AM

So 500 people with CFS could have done it with only 10 responding. 5 write about it, which doesn't pass statistical significance, and his posting of the best ones gives the false impression that it is effective. I personally am skeptical because while my life was no bed of roses shortly before I got ME, I had never developed ME symptoms because of the stress and didn't have a big negative stressor prior to getting ME or somatic illness that is required to justify a diagnosis of somatoform disorder. This caused me to reject somatoform diagnosis as real in my own case of ME.

Here's the website for Reverse Therapy.

There is no research proving that any brain training psychological therapy would be able to change the real physical changes we see in ME such as prolonged deficiency in 2 day Exercise Tests and Post Exertion Malaise and none of the case studies mention any objective testing to prove this has changed. I also did a Pubmed search and find no published studies testing this hypothesis (search terms 'reverse therapy' and cfs).

This causes me to have grave concerns that this therapy will worsen patients who convince themselves they are better when they are not and lead them to overexert their bodies and worsen the ME, similar to what happens with Graded Exercise Therapy.

To get some counterpoints I reviewed the Amazon.com page for the Reverse Therapy book and found two critical reviews from CFS patients.

Although he insists this is not psychotherapy, this seemed to me just another Doctor telling his mostly female patients that their symptoms were all in their head, with emotional and psychological causes. -Bookalot23

ive been suffering cfs for 3 years this book is not a cure really doesnt give any thing from reverse theraphy ...THIS BOOK WILL NOT CURE YOUR CFS. -danielk

It is my opinion that if someone had somatoform disorder before or after their CFS this may help them but for those who don't have a concurrent mental condition Reverse Therapy doesn't make any sense.

 

[Hip]

Sounds good, @Sophiedw, please do keep us informed.

One other forum member, @sueami, who did well on Reverse Therapy has a blog about her progress here.

@Sophiedw, did you experience any major chronic stress (such as from events like divorce, bereavement, or serious financial woes) in the year leading up to the arrival of your ME/CFS? And was your ME/CFS precipitated by an infectious episode (a short flu-like or gastrointestinal illness, bad sore throat, etc)?

There are several studies showing major chronic stress if often present in the year leading up to the when ME/CFS first arrives: Refs: 1 2 3 4

Some psychiatrists have unfortunately used this stress connection to promote their views that ME/CFS is an "all in the mind" psychogenic condition, but I think a more sensible biological explanation is that stress simply weakens antiviral immunity, which then gives an acute viral infection the opportunity to enter into tissue compartments such as the brain that it may not have otherwise breached. Chronic stress is well known to weaken the immune response.

 

[gbells]

Some psychiatrists have unfortunately used this stress connection to promote their views that ME/CFS is an "all in the mind" psychogenic condition, but I think a more sensible biological explanation is that stress simply weakens antiviral immunity, which then gives an acute viral infection the opportunity to enter into tissue compartments such as the brain that it may not otherwise breach. Chronic stress is well known to weaken the immune response.

HIP you are confusing a stress caused viral reactivation with initial viral infection. I don't see any reason to think that stress has any effect on initial viral infection and could trigger CFS for a new infections.

 

[Hip]

HIP you are confusing a stress caused viral reactivation with initial viral infection. I don't see any reason to think that stress has any effect on initial viral infection and could trigger CFS for a new infections.

There are studies linking chronic stress to increased susceptibility to new infection. This study found that children of parents who went through a bitter divorce were 3 times more susceptible to catching a cold when a cold virus (rhinovirus) was squirted in their nose, compared to control subjects.

Chronic stress elevates cortisol, which suppresses the antiviral Th1 immune response as well as the T-cell response. (But note that short-term stress lasting just a few weeks has not been found to reduce immunity; it's only long-term chronic stress that is immunosuppressive and makes you more prone to infections — see this study).

Dr John Chia also discovered that if people were accidentally prescribed immunosuppressive cortisol drugs (corticosteroids) while they had an acute infection, then this would often lead to ME/CFS (see this thread).

Dr Chia warns doctors that they should be very careful when prescribing corticosteroids, because if a doctor happens to prescribe these immunosuppressive drugs while someone is going through an short acute infection (which could be an enterovirus infection), the corticosteroids can turn that infection into ME/CFS.

But we taking this thread a bit off track.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

But we taking this thread a bit off track.

Not really. An explanation of the relationship of stress to ME/CFS in defense of Reverse Therapy seems right en pointe to me.

 

[raghav]

Prolonged stress can cause elevation of cortisol, which in turn can cause gut permeability to increase leading to leaky gut which then opens a pandora box of illnesses.

 

[gbells]

@Hip I don't see that the study you quoted accounted for the possiblity that the kids may have already been exposed to the cold virus.

 

[Artemisia]

@Sophiedw could you please update your progress with Reverse Therapy? I fear maybe it didn't help you after all since you haven't updated. :/