Researchers Find Evidence That Gut Bacteria Plays a Role In Fibromyalgia, ME/CFS

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

It's been posited for a while now that the gut microbiome has a definite place in, and deserves more research into, how it relates to both fibromyalgia and ME/CFS, as this article expresses.

Worth a quick read.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/researchers-evidence-gut-bacteria-plays-214238564.html

 

[Wishful]

The study doesn't show causation, just a correlation. It could be that specific bacterial species support or inhibit part of the processes that make up ME, but it could also be that ME supports or inhibits the bacteria. It's worth further study, but I don't see it as a major breakthrough.

Claiming that bacteria is a cause of a disease does get more public media attention than claiming that a disease affects which specific bacteria are living in our poo.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Wishful

The study doesn't show causation, just a correlation

Which could be a good jumping off point for deeper investigation.

It's worth further study, but I don't see it as a major breakthrough.

Nor was it claimed as one. And I agree, it's worth further study. Including by those of us affected by this crappy little outhouse of an illness.

 

[andyguitar]

@YippeeKi YOW !! and @Wishful I agree with both of you.

 

[Wolfcub]

@YippeeKi YOW !! and @Wishful I agree with both of you.

So do I.
It's hard to know which came first - "the chicken or the egg" scenario. But I agree it does warrant further study.

 

[Wishful]

I think I was bothered by the title: claiming that they had evidence that bacteria play a role in FM. That implies causation. I haven't read the study, but I'd be surprised if they had actual evidence of causation. I suppose they could test it by feeding some suitable test animals the suspected bacteria (and prebiotics if necessary) and seeing if they developed FM.

 

[andyguitar]

Thats a good idea @Wishful

 

[ljimbo423]

I think I was bothered by the title: claiming that they had evidence that bacteria play a role in FM. That implies causation. I haven't read the study, but I'd be surprised if they had actual evidence of causation. I suppose they could test it by feeding some suitable test animals the suspected bacteria (and prebiotics if necessary) and seeing if they developed FM.

This has been done with stool from Autistic children, infused into mice.

Also, the Autistic children were given Fecal Matter Transplants (FMT) and it improved their Autism symptoms by 45%! This is a quote from Dr. James Adams the leading researcher on this study-

"over time, it just seems their brain is much healthier. Now they are able to learn language, interact socially, they have fewer behavioral problems"

"Most of the children started the study with severe Autism. At the end of the study most of the children had either mild to moderate Autism or were below the cut-off of Autism."

Dr. Adams says the FDA is fast-tracking his FMT for Autism studies that are now underway, because it sounds "promising".


Dr. James Adams talks about a study done on mice- (from the transcript) -

Our role was to collect the stool samples from children with autism and from typical children we provided them to the group at Caltech they then infused them into mice, when those mice had offspring the mice who were injected with microbiota from healthy humans, those mice developed fine.

The mice that got bacteria from the children with autism, developed a series of autistic like symptoms, communication problems, behavior problems, anxiety, what's even more concerning is it depended on the severity of the child, if the child with autism was more severe, than the mice were more severe.

This is very powerful, one of the first indications of a mouse model based on something from a child with autism that their gut bacteria put in to a mouse can cause that Mouse's offspring, to develop autism symptoms so that's why we think the mothers are so important because that's how you inherit most of your gut bacteria is from your mother.

The Autism patients continued to improve 2 years after the FMT. This seems like good evidence of FMT reducing brain inflammation in Autism and dramatically reducing symptoms.

So it would stand to reason, that their gut microbiome is what was causing the symptoms of Autism that were reversed (some dramatically!) by the FMT.

Dr James Adams' Interview starts at approximately the 21 minute mark and ends at approximately the 47 minute mark-about 26 minutes.

 

[Wishful]

So it would stand to reason, that their gut microbiome is what was causing the symptoms of Autism that were reversed (some dramatically!) by the FMT.

Maybe, although some other explanations are possible. It could be that the change in the microbiome triggers a change in the immune system, but it's the immune system causing the problems, rather than the continued existence of the specific bacteria. An additional test: switch microbiome populations repeatedly over an x-month period in the same animals and see if the behaviour switches state too. If it's only a one-time switch of states, then it might be the immune system rather than the bacteria. I think the presence/absence of specific bacteria is the more likely cause, but I think it would be a good test to do.

 

[knackers323]

I agree this is worth looking into but a connection between gut bacteria and CFS was noted at least as far back as 1997 when there was a big announcement from Newcastle university in Australia
They had had testing kits and gave recommendations on treatment.
Unfortunately here we are over twenty years later and the same old things keep seem to be being presented as new findings and next to no progress has been made

Anyone aware of a cfser that has tried a long term elemental diet?