Research showing Lyme patients who don't recover have viruses

[cigana]

I haven't watched this, but I think the gist is that he has discovered the difference between those who recover on their own and those that don't is because of viral infection:

 

[heapsreal]

Haven't watched the video yet but the theory is similar to lerner or back to front, as he says his pts that dont recover with antivirals have a bacterial infection . It seems likely that many resistant cfsers or lymers have both viruses and bacterial infections needing treatment .

 

[SOC]

Haven't watched the video yet but the theory is similar to lerner or back to front, as he says his pts that dont recover with antivirals have a bacterial infection . It seems likely that many resistant cfsers or lymers have both viruses and bacterial infections needing treatment .

Which suggests to me an underlying immune disorder since, as we're told repeatedly, our immune systems should be handling these common infections.

Now what that immune disorder might be, and what might be at the root of it (infection, genetics, ???) is a mystery.

 

[Violeta]

Here's another of his videos. This might help clear up some of the mystery.

 

[JaimeS]

About to put a poll in the field about that, @SOC . I wonder how many of us have some kind of Ig abnormality, as per our previous discussion.

-J

 

[SOC]

About to put a poll in the field about that, @SOC . I wonder how many of us have some kind of Ig abnormality, as per our previous discussion.

I wonder what tiny fraction of us can actually get a doctor to run the necessary tests to find Ig abnormalities. I took me years of pushing for the tests before a doc was willing to do them, even with clear signs of recurrent infections. Sigh...

 

[JaimeS]

I wonder what tiny fraction of us can actually get a doctor to run the necessary tests to find Ig abnormalities. I took me years of pushing for the tests before a doc was willing to do them, even with clear signs of recurrent infections. Sigh...

Good question!

Regardless, poll now here.

-J

 

[Violeta]

@SOC and @JaimeS , The second video lists common abnormalities found in his Lyme patients! Did you watch it?

 

[JaimeS]

Not yet, @Violeta - lots of work today! I will check it out, though.

-J

 

[justy]

Here's another of his videos. This might help clear up some of the mystery.

@Sushi @girlinthesnow - this video is a good watch.

 

[Dufresne]

Here's another of his videos. This might help clear up some of the mystery.

Thanks for posting this. By far the best video I've seen from Dr Rau. The more I experiment with my approach to health the closer I get to this type of treatment philosophy. The main difference is I'm not as opposed to antimicrobials as Dr Rau. That said, I wouldn't bother taking them for chronic illness without most of the other things in place. And he gives a good overview of what's important. Here's what's worked for me along these lines.

I never understood to what extent my diet was a problem. As a drug-free bodybuilder in my previous life my protein intake was huge, and even after losing the ability to lift weights I mostly maintained this for a long time to minimize muscle loss. And also because carbs seemed to be quite bad for me. Now I've come to also understand the higher my protein, the worse I feel: more brain fog, less energy, less creativity, more autistic-like symptoms, lower PEM threshold -all due to increased inflammation/oxidative stress/acidity. Although I can clearly attribute my symptoms to the activity of pathogens and toxins, all this can be decreased by up to 70% just by addressing diet and a few other things. This is huge! The only problem has been muscle loss. However cutting mammalian meat and lowering overall protein intake, coupled with a low carb, highly alkalizing diet with supplements seems to be getting me closer to where I've to be while not losing too much. For me carbs are just as acidifying/oxidizing as protein. As such the vast majority of my calories come from fat, of which I try to consume the highest quality possible. This fits nicely with Dr Rau's approach to healing cell membranes.

I get the impression using binders is absolutely essential in these diseases of toxicity. It causes some inflammation as one removes this crap from the body, but I figure this is what the system deems necessary if it continues to release the stuff from deeper stores when the immediately accessible toxins are pulled from the gut.

I've used nosodes on infections with varying results. I always noticed the effects would wane as I continued to treat. I've since learned these effects can be extended with an improved terrain. Also, according to many who use nosodes, they seem to work better on smaller pathogens. This corresponds with Dr Rau using them with viruses, while using isopathics for bacteria and such. I've noticed immune shifts using isopathics in the past but I never stuck with them; I intend to get back to that soon. Without a decent terrain and immune system, we're very lucky if we can sustain any real progress with this sort of disease. The bugs just come back again and again and the pathology remains constant, at best.

I know a lot of folks of the allopathic mindset have a tough time with some of this stuff, but I whole-heartedly endorse it in the hope that more will consider trying it. There's something to it: I'm reading books again for the first time in three years; I'm able to work part-time; and I'm enjoying a better sense of well being than I ever have.

 

[Violeta]

@Dufresne Have you read any of Dr. Rau's books? I would appreciate a short list of the foods and fats that you eat, I'm having a hard time figuring out diet. I agree with you on binders, I'm just not very consistent with them; I need to get consistent, I realize that. Thanks for bringing that up.

 

[Dufresne]

I haven't read any of his books. Truthfully I was never that impressed with the man. Much of what he'd spoken about resonated, but sloppy details and a certain vagueness always turned me off. Even in this video he has a list of viruses that includes chlamydia. I also didn't think his strategy was aggressive enough (it may not be still), but he's always focused on aspects other LLMD's didn't. The closest practitioner to him I've found is Dr Klinghardt, but he's spread so thin over such an expansive domain it's hard to know what to make of his assurances, or even where one should start. Dr Rau does a much better job in this video of bringing together the salient points. That coupled with a continued shift in my treatment philosophy has disposed me more favourably to guy.

You hear Cheney talking about terrain manipulation to get to the core of this disease, and Horowitz appears to be focusing on "inflammation" as the main target, but neither puts sufficient emphasis on diet which, judging from my experience, is at least half the equation. And I think this is key for recovery. It's not enough to simply eliminate foods one is sensitive to. Cheney has mentioned dropping protein intake to shift redox in the right direction but this doesn't go far enough. I think if you're eating too much protein and/or too many carbs in combination with an already oxidized terrain, you end up locked in a state of ill health. So most people's paleo is only half of it, and those still eating lots of carbs suffer a similar fate. Alkaline/acid, reduction/oxidation, Yin/Yang, cooling/heating all get to the same point but this dynamic isn't sufficiently respected in the west. This has been central in Asian medicine for millennia. I think we'd do well to respect this wisdom, as airy as it might sound.

Put the diet together with detox and you can begin to peel off the infections, heal damaged tissue and energetic imbalances. This is what I believe.

I've to rotate all my foods due to an extreme tendency to sensitize to whatever I consume. My main sources of protein are chicken, turkey, white fleshed fish, and a rice protein powder. I'll have a piece of salmon maybe once a week and maybe even a taste of spiced salami when I'm really bored. Beef and pork are more oxidizing than other animal protein sources gram for gram so I hardly ever indulge. I do best if I keep protein under 100g/day. I eat very little in the way of carbs. I also rotate broccoli, cauliflower, romaine, asparagus, ice berg, mushrooms, tomatoes, and fruit and potatoes sparingly. The oils I use are coconut, olive, canola, avocado, and sometimes sunflower and safflower. Usually first-pressed and organic.

The binders I use are cholestyramine, chlorella, activated charcoal, and bentonite.

All this along with avoidance of environmental stressors is my foundation.

 

[justy]

@Dufresne - and how are you getting on with this approach you outlined above?

I spotted the Chlamydia error - in the viruses list!! made me a little unsure of him - also checked out his clinic, the costs are pretty high and they are vague about what you will get for the money.

As im hardly able to tolerate any drugs (I have MCAS alongside the infections) i'm leaning more towards seeing what I can do to heal through other means. Now sure at the moment if im lucky or unlucky that I can take abx

 

[JaimeS]

I spotted the Chlamydia error - in the viruses list!!

To be fair, medicine did USED to think it was!

-J

 

[Dufresne]

@Dufresne - and how are you getting on with this approach you outlined above?

I spotted the Chlamydia error - in the viruses list!! made me a little unsure of him - also checked out his clinic, the costs are pretty high and they are vague about what you will get for the money.

As im hardly able to tolerate any drugs (I have MCAS alongside the infections) i'm leaning more towards seeing what I can do to heal through other means. Now sure at the moment if im lucky or unlucky that I can take abx

I wrote about some of my improvements in the posts above. These were mostly due to avoidance, detox, and terrain manipulation. This is the stuff I think needs to be in place before one starts killing bugs. Addressing these might just increase your tolerance for antimicrobials.

Can you take herbs like Knotweed to reduce inflammation?

Homeopathy is worth trying. I don't care what anybody says, I know it has an effect. You buy the nosodes in varying dilutions for each of the infections you want to treat. Do you know what your main critters are?

The sanum remedies Dr Rau uses should be prescribed by someone who knows what they're doing. Such people are hard to find.

Mike Dessin's recovery, which took place in a fairly short period of time, followed this philosophy. He was deathly ill and sensitive to just about everything and still managed to turn it around. What brought him back to the land of the living was: avoidance, detox, IV feeding (which would produce a favourable terrain), pleo-sanum remedies, and neural therapy.

 

[MadeleineKM]

When I am done with the IV I am going to my homeopath which have some experience with lyme patients. She has done miracles for my little daughter after her vaccine damage. I would also recommend to find a good homeopath

 

[Violeta]

I haven't read any of his books. Truthfully I was never that impressed with the man. Much of what he'd spoken about resonated, but sloppy details and a certain vagueness always turned me off. Even in this video he has a list of viruses that includes chlamydia. I also didn't think his strategy was aggressive enough (it may not be still), but he's always focused on aspects other LLMD's didn't. The closest practitioner to him I've found is Dr Klinghardt, but he's spread so thin over such an expansive domain it's hard to know what to make of his assurances, or even where one should start. Dr Rau does a much better job in this video of bringing together the salient points. That coupled with a continued shift in my treatment philosophy has disposed me more favourably to guy.

You hear Cheney talking about terrain manipulation to get to the core of this disease, and Horowitz appears to be focusing on "inflammation" as the main target, but neither puts sufficient emphasis on diet which, judging from my experience, is at least half the equation. And I think this is key for recovery. It's not enough to simply eliminate foods one is sensitive to. Cheney has mentioned dropping protein intake to shift redox in the right direction but this doesn't go far enough. I think if you're eating too much protein and/or too many carbs in combination with an already oxidized terrain, you end up locked in a state of ill health. So most people's paleo is only half of it, and those still eating lots of carbs suffer a similar fate. Alkaline/acid, reduction/oxidation, Yin/Yang, cooling/heating all get to the same point but this dynamic isn't sufficiently respected in the west. This has been central in Asian medicine for millennia. I think we'd do well to respect this wisdom, as airy as it might sound.

Put the diet together with detox and you can begin to peel off the infections, heal damaged tissue and energetic imbalances. This is what I believe.

I've to rotate all my foods due to an extreme tendency to sensitize to whatever I consume. My main sources of protein are chicken, turkey, white fleshed fish, and a rice protein powder. I'll have a piece of salmon maybe once a week and maybe even a taste of spiced salami when I'm really bored. Beef and pork are more oxidizing than other animal protein sources gram for gram so I hardly ever indulge. I do best if I keep protein under 100g/day. I eat very little in the way of carbs. I also rotate broccoli, cauliflower, romaine, asparagus, ice berg, mushrooms, tomatoes, and fruit and potatoes sparingly. The oils I use are coconut, olive, canola, avocado, and sometimes sunflower and safflower. Usually first-pressed and organic.

The binders I use are cholestyramine, chlorella, activated charcoal, and bentonite.

All this along with avoidance of environmental stressors is my foundation.

I appreciated the video, and yes, he is most like Klinghardt. I was not in agreement with his recommendation of veganism, although maybe a short stint would be beneficial. I was vegan for many years, too many years. I liked the fact that he looks at each person's issues individually and that he looks for other issues besides pathogens. That can seem rather elementary, but it's amazing how few practitioners present that to their patients. I also liked that he asks his patients, "What are you going to do for yourself?"

The one thing that I wanted to say is that I had been thinking of virus, etc., and I do seem to have a vagus nerve involvement, and it just hit me, the infection might be in the brain, one of the glands! It was a horrible thought, and now I wondering about maybe the high fat diet is even more important because of that. I don't know.

Thank you for taking the time to write that all out. It's very helpful. I have to eat low protein, I should eat low carb, I don't know if a high fat diet will work or not, but if I could figure out how to do it and not lose weight I would be willing to try it. The plant chemicals cause the most severe issues for me, goitrogens and oxalates. Others are difficult to digest. White fish does seem the best, least problematic. Do you use the fats on the vegetables? How much fat would you guess that you eat a day?

I agree with you about yin/yang, cooling/heating, acid/alkaline, and have to look up oxidation/reduction. I could get into that more, and maybe I will later when I'm not so tired, but there are things about those diets that actually help deal with removing toxins from the body and relieving oxidation, which might be a bigger part of the picture than I had realized.

Have you tried your diet with and then without dairy? I hadn't had any dairy for many years but added it when I hit a wall with macrobiotics. Right now with my food list so short I don't know if I should leave it in my diet or if removing would actually help my list get longer? I just use a small amount of yogurt and butter, sometimes heavy cream.

Thank you for bringing up the binders, I need to always be reminded of their important place because I have difficulty being consistent with them.

Thanks again,

 

[Dufresne]

@Violeta
But they say you'd want to be on a very low fat diet if you had the protozoa FL1953. Which just goes to show there's no one size fits all.

Binders, however, would probably help the vast majority who'd use them. I can feel the toxins being released, and my body apparently prioritizes this so I can only conclude it's productive in the long run, maybe essential.

I believe an oxidized state encourages intracellular pathogens and vice versa, that these bugs perpetuate this environment to ensure their survival. I think it's primarily these bugs persisting and causing problems in ME/CFS and chronic Lyme. And it's the oxidative stress that leads to the energy problems in these diseases. The reason the bugs were able to gain a foothold in us and not in others is that we've some genetic or environmental complication. I'm willing to bet for many of us it's mold and other such inflammogens. Inflammogens will cause a certain amount of oxidative stress all on their own, but combine them with proliferating bugs and it's more than you body's buffer systems can manage. It's all downhill from there.

 

[Hanna]

@Violeta thanks for this video. Very interesting and logical to care for the terrain.

As @Dufresne wrote, I have been experimenting a positive shift in my symptoms, since I have been limiting my proteins intake to the minimum, giving priority to the detox, eating fresh fruits drinking veggies juices (to avoid the overload of fibers).
For years, I was gluten and dairy free, ate paleo but it didn't do the trick. In fact,I had a lot of troubles with protein digestion -especially cooked ones). I feel that eating more raw - with attention to food associations - saves some precious energy.

Of course,this is not enough, I am using antimicrobial phyto remedies and binders . And would like to introduce some way to enhance immunologic function (micro-immunotherapy for viruses and bacteries ? mushrooms ?). Enderlein remedies don't seem a good option if I am working on my own (not any single MD/ND knows the technique where I live). Perhaps some of you would have an idea about how to work on my immune system, in order for him to begin to fight EBV and borellia/bart/babs ?

I have used a protocole of ABX + phyto for a whole year, with some improvement (the 1st ones in 16-17 years), but it seems it "only" helped the bugs hiding and mutate into latent forms. I am concerned by the effects of ABX on the gut, and so on the immune system as a result, and I don't feel secure to resume treatment with my classical protocole (tetracyclines, macrolides, flagyl/fasigyn etc).

Moreover, in 1997, one year and a half before my falling ill with CFS, I was infected with amybiasis, which were treated with multiple rounds of flagyl (1250 mg/day 7-10days rounds). It didn't make the bugs disappear. And maybe, it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I feel that I need to tackle all the things at once, including heavy metals and environnemental problems (I am also hypersensitive to EMF). That is a bit overwhelming...