Raising Testosterone

[Vanguard]

Do most guys who become ill try to get testosterone replacement therapy at some point? I know that XMRV is known to grow from androgens and that sometimes higher testosterone, as well as other hormones, can make a patient feel worse. However, we need testosterone to be healthy and of course to feel good as well.

Has anyone tried HCG or clomid or other things to try and get T levels raised aside from replacement therapy? This is an area I've wondered about but don't find much information on with CFS. Thanks.

Vanguard

 

[heapsreal]

Do most guys who become ill try to get testosterone replacement therapy at some point? I know that XMRV is known to grow from androgens and that sometimes higher testosterone, as well as other hormones, can make a patient feel worse. However, we need testosterone to be healthy and of course to feel good as well.

Has anyone tried HCG or clomid or other things to try and get T levels raised aside from replacement therapy? This is an area I've wondered about but don't find much information on with CFS. Thanks.

Vanguard

If you have a chronic illness its very likely to drop your hormone levels, so treating this can help but wont cure cfs unless its soley due to low hormones. Personally i think in men we have to be careful about high estrogen levels or E2 levels as they are called. It was once thought that high testosterone and or dihydrotestosterone(DHT) was the cause of prostate problems(which it seems xmrv likes prostates) but recent studies show it is E2 that is causing alot of problems for men, when we get older testosterone can aromatise to E2 which lowers our free testosterone, how can we fix this, one is by losing weight as that spare tyre increases aromatizing enzymes but also meds like arimidex can also stop testosterone from aromatising to E2. if we stop this aromatsing, this can increase our free testosterone levels, but also we dont want to drive E2 too low as this can also cause problems. SO its important to get labs so we know where all our hormones are, and also finding a doctor who knows about male hormone restoration.

Things u need tested are total testosterone, free testosterone, E2, dhea, cortisol. cortisol to can help control E2, so if levels are too low the E2 can go high so may have to look at that. Lab values for hormones are very wide, a good rule to go by is that you want total and free testosterone, dhea in the middle to upper third of the lab values, if they are still in range but the lower third, its still too low and probably the level of an 80 year old. E2 and cortisol in the lower third of the lab ranges.

As for hcg, on its own i wouldnt go there, it also increases estrogen as well as testosterone, so u would need to control estrogen if using it. HCG is normally taken by guys who are already on TRT and there testicles have shrunk to size of sultanas or for guys wanting to get off TRT and trying to restart there natural production after being shut down by TRT. pregnenolone is something to look into has it can increase cortisol, dhea and filter down and increase testosterone but it doesnt work for everyone and cfs people can react strangely to normal doses of these hormones so need to start very low doses like 5mg a day etc. dhea also seems to convert to E2 in alot of men especially in recommended doses like 50mg a day and higher, so if trying dhea also start low like 10mg and get labs reassessed. If E2 is high, fixing this can sort out alot of your other hormones. I use arimidex which has helped lower my E2 which was high and increased my free testosterone levels and i think this has helped me to lose a good amount of weight, but in combo with a good diet.

Get all your labs done first and try and find a good TRT doctor as they can help sort you out alot better then the average doc. but remember cfs people do react very different to hormone replacement, so what works for normal people is different to us. heres a good male hormone restoration site, good info but doesnt always fit us http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?2-All-Things-Male this site may help u find a good doc too.

cheers!!!

 

[Vanguard]

Thanks for the informative answer heaps.

Ok, so I'm getting my XMRV test sometime in November. I've read that it can feed on hormones like Testosterone and others. So if I raise my T levels I could be feeding the virus and feel worse. Do you think I should just wait until I get my test results back? Won't I need to raise my hormones no matter what the test results? This area confuses me so much. People need stable hormones but Xmrv feeds off of them.

Thanks

 

[heapsreal]

i think you need to keep your hormones within a healthy range but like u say low hormones arent good for us either as they can decrease our immunity etc, so its a balancing act. I think if xmrv has abit to do with the prostate, that its probably important to control E2 levels as high E2 is know to increase cancer risk(maybe xmrv) and enlarged prostate problems. I would be tempted to get all the hormone tests and if like me your E2 is high and u can control it, you will get a corresponding improvement in other hormones without directly altering them.

cheers!!!

 

[Jonsparky]

Hormone replacement

Hi,
I am getting complete hormone replacement for 4 years now, HGH, Testosterone, ST3 (Sustained triiodoliothyronine) for thyroid. For Testosterone, I self inject Cyponate Testosterone every other day in smaller doses. I have raised my testosterone level to 700, when I started it was 230. I think Testosterone has been a big help with the brain fog and energy levels. I take low
doses of Progesterone at bedtime, this helps sleep, and also helps to block estrogen levels from raising. There is some research that shows the
Hypothalamus is effected by CFS and FM. This would explain the lower hormone levels.
http://www.holtorfmed.com/dr-pdf/Diagnosis Treatment CFS FM.pdf

 

[mellster]

Testosterone has helped me as well and I think the benefit of raising levels far outweighs any possible risks of yet unconfirmed viruses feeding off of it (unless you have prostate cancer or another serious condition that requires you to reduce testosterone). Studies have shown that males with higher testosterone levels are healthier overall and while there is debate over individual levels vs. one chart for all there is likely some truth to it.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

I get Nebido (testosterone) injections once per three months, made a huge difference
Lost most of the "getting insides sucked out with vacuum cleaner" fatigue, got back some muscle tone etc.
has increased my appetite though, and does seem to have varying effects over the three month cycle.

 

[mellster]

One thing you can do without meds is to avoid soy btw. It is now believed that the mass-consumption of soy products is partly responsible for the low-T epidemic in men.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

One thing you can do without meds is to avoid soy btw. It is now believed that the mass-consumption of soy products is partly responsible for the low-T epidemic in men.

Think testosterone issues *outside of ME* are more likely to be linked ot the over all reduction in male fertility, increasing numbers of intersexed children being born etc
ie, too many damn chemicals which create, often by breakdown, feminizing hormones in the water supply
hence, across the Western world many river fish and amphibians etc have become feminized to incredible extent.

ME affects the endocrine system, wouldn't be helped by such but the amounts are low so unlikely to make things worse, major problem is during pregnancy and how those artificial hormone-like chemicals affect the developing young. So, ME aptients are way too late for such, though...may well be unhelpful, especially if we're "hyperreactive" to chemcials
*shrugs* Interesting to consider/check though

Regarding myself (and most ME patients iirc) it's the regulatory hormone that controls testosterone production and that comes from the pituitary, that is affected, NOT the testes/adrenals/capacity to produce testosterone, so external hormonal issues are unlikely IF such purely affected testosterone itself


according to the consultant I has less testosterone than a 90 year old man, and that test was back when I was 35, and I had been weight training etc etc and was built like brick sh*thouse before I got ME when I was about 26.
used to have to get jackets/shirts for 50" chest, now though I've got "moobs" instead of "pecs"...bah, the Fates are twisted sods, so they are!

 

[heapsreal]

Think testosterone issues *outside of ME* are more likely to be linked ot the over all reduction in male fertility, increasing numbers of intersexed children being born etc
ie, too many damn chemicals which create, often by breakdown, feminizing hormones in the water supply
hence, across the Western world many river fish and amphibians etc have become feminized to incredible extent.

ME affects the endocrine system, wouldn't be helped by such but the amounts are low so unlikely to make things worse, major problem is during pregnancy and how those artificial hormone-like chemicals affect the developing young. So, ME aptients are way too late for such, though...may well be unhelpful, especially if we're "hyperreactive" to chemcials
*shrugs* Interesting to consider/check though

Regarding myself (and most ME patients iirc) it's the regulatory hormone that controls testosterone production and that comes from the pituitary, that is affected, NOT the testes/adrenals/capacity to produce testosterone, so external hormonal issues are unlikely IF such purely affected testosterone itself


according to the consultant I has less testosterone than a 90 year old man, and that test was back when I was 35, and I had been weight training etc etc and was built like brick sh*thouse before I got ME when I was about 26.
used to have to get jackets/shirts for 50" chest, now though I've got "moobs" instead of "pecs"...bah, the Fates are twisted sods, so they are!

Argh yes the days of having pecs, now moobs. I hear ya, lol. My 140kg bench press is now, well i got know idea but know where near 140kg thats for sure. I still have that 50 inch chest but its just not made of bricks any more its sort of a soft rubbery substance now, lol.

cheers!!!

 

[Vanguard]

I'm a 25 year old guy and about three months ago when all of this started my testosterone tested in the 200's, I had it tested yesterday and it was 708. Go figure. I don't feel like my T is that high..the body is so strange.

I did try Clomid for a couple of weeks and that may have raised my T levels. I've heard conflicting info on this product because some think it can disrupt the hpa axis even more...so now I have a urologist who wants me to get back on it but at the same time I'm not sure it's a good idea.

 

[heapsreal]

I'm a 25 year old guy and about three months ago when all of this started my testosterone tested in the 200's, I had it tested yesterday and it was 708. Go figure. I don't feel like my T is that high..the body is so strange.

I did try Clomid for a couple of weeks and that may have raised my T levels. I've heard conflicting info on this product because some think it can disrupt the hpa axis even more...so now I have a urologist who wants me to get back on it but at the same time I'm not sure it's a good idea.

You need to get estrogen(E2) checked as this can go up also as testosterone levels go up as testosterone can aromatise to E2, so may need arimidex to help keep E2 low, did u also get free testosterone levels checked??

 

[heapsreal]

high E2 can negate the effects of high testosterone levels.

 

[Jonsparky]

high E2 can negate the effects of high testosterone levels.

http://www.hormone-healthy.com/Men_and_Progesterone.htm

 

[heapsreal]

yes, i have read about progesterone helping estrogen dominance, also pregnenolone is another hormone that can help and it also helps improve other hormones like cortisol and possibly dhea as well as progesterone. I have heard that progesterone is good for sleep, mmm may need to look into that.

cheers!!!

 

[Vanguard]

Jonsparky - I see that you take progesterone. I've read that it can increase testosterone but decrease libido? I don't want that side effect. Have you experienced this?

 

[Vanguard]

Actually I remember now that something I read said younger men, like myself, wouldn't benefit from progesterone and that it would lower testosterone and libido. Older men however in their 50s and 60s do benefit from it.

 

[Jonsparky]

Progesterone

Hi,
I mainly am taking it for sleep, no side effects from it, but I am 54. I also take time released meletonin for sleep issues, but I think it helps a lot to get to sleep.
Hope this helps.
Jon

 

[Vanguard]

What pregnenolone dosage would you guys suggest? I see that most stores carry 25 mg or 30 mg as their lowest, but I've read that that's too much per day and it should be more like 5 mgs per day. Any thoughts?

 

[Jonsparky]

I take 25mg of HMG-progesterone at bedtime, mine comes from a compound pharmacy.