Paper on killing Lyme persisters in vitro

[msf]

I know this is in vitro, but it's reassuring that the buggers can be killed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4373819/

 

[duncan]

Zheng may be launching a study trialing some of these combos on patients.

 

[msf]

Sounds good, although I would be slightly concerned about the Daptomycin. If it works, however, I'm sure many people will think the risks are definitely worth it.

 

[Sushi]

In Vitro Research from Johns Hopkins:

Abstract
Although most Lyme disease patients can be cured with antibiotics doxycycline or amoxicillin using 2-4 week treatment durations, some patients suffer from persistent arthritis or post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome. Why these phenomena occur is unclear, but possibilities include host responses, antigenic debris, or B. burgdorferi organisms remaining despite antibiotic therapy....

Daptomycin plus doxycycline and cefoperazone eradicated the most resistant microcolony form of B. burgdorferi persisters and did not yield viable spirochetes upon subculturing, suggesting durable killing that was not achieved by any other two or three drug combinations. These findings may have implications for improved treatment of Lyme disease.

 

[msf]

Hey Sushi, I already posted a link to this paper...haha, I just wanted to tell a moderator that for once.

 

[Sushi]

Hey Sushi, I already posted a link to this paper...haha, I just wanted to tell a moderator that for once.

Missed that one! I merged the threads.

 

[Lemnia]

Having just read this recent publication (link below) result I couldn't help but be excited by it. A study by Johns Hopkins I believe produced these impressive results from combining certain antibiotics.
"Remarkably, we found that daptomycin in combination with doxycycline and cefoperazone was able to completely eradicate the most resistant micro colonies".
Has anyone else come across this and if so are there any doctors treating with this combination ?

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0117207

 

[justy]

I don't know of any, but you could always ask one and see what they say (an LLMD I mean). Unfortuantely some of us are just not well enough t even take these kinds of treatments in these combinations until we have done lots of other work first (gut, immune etc)

 

[msf]

Hi Lemnia, I already started a thread on this, but I'm sure how many replies it got.

I merged Lemnia's thread into this one--Sushi

 

[duncan]

Notice who one of the authors is? Paul Auwaerter, of IDSA fame? He and Zhang both work for Johns Hopkins, so there's the tie-in. But what might be interpreted by some as a tacit admission of at least the possibility of persisters by Auwaerter, I thought was noteworthy.

 

[Ema]

I think the problem is that daptomycin is IV and it appears that cefoperazone is IV/IM but also looks to be discontinued (according to drugs.com) in the US.

That makes this a very hard treatment to source outside of a research setting...

 

[Antares in NYC]

Notice who one of the authors is? Paul Auwaerter, of IDSA fame? He and Zhang both work for Johns Hopkins, so there's the tie-in. But what might be interpreted by some as a tacit admission of at least the possibility of persisters by Auwaerter, I thought was noteworthy.

Wait a minute.... is this the same Paul Auwaerter that suggested that people with chronic Lyme should seek psychiatric help?

The same Paul Auwaerter who recently equated chronic Lyme with moon landing paranoid conspiracies?

So now good ol' Paul has an antibiotic combination to cure... chronic Lyme??? Well, slap me around and call me Susan! These people really think we are stupid. No wonder people are fed up with this situation. They are literally adding insult to injury.

 

[duncan]

Yep, that's the guy.

I am not really clear on why he signed his name to this study. One can only speculate. Perhaps to ensure the narrative was "measured"? I think it was funded by the Lyme Research Alliance. (A Lyme advocacy outfit hooking up withJohns Hopkins is not your typical fit)

But that he is associated with the effort concerns me.

With a nod to Justy, as msf and others pointed out, these are in vitro results, and there is a caveat in the study about the dangers of extrapolating the findings to actual human treatments. So my take is these combos are not ready for prime time yet anyway.

Moreover, I have reason to believe that Zhang may be putting together a study to trial different abx cocktails precisely to resolve this limitation, but I cannot confirm that yet.

 

[kungfudao]

Wait a minute.... is this the same Paul Auwaerter that suggested that people with chronic Lyme should seek psychiatric help?

The same Paul Auwaerter who recently equated chronic Lyme with moon landing paranoid conspiracies?

So now good ol' Paul has an antibiotic combination to cure... chronic Lyme??? Well, slap me around and call me Susan! These people really think we are stupid. No wonder people are fed up with this situation. They are literally adding insult to injury.

Yes??? and John Hopkins University???, But ,it was funded by Lyme Research Alliance. I have been prescribed these meds and my home Pharmacy said Cefoperazone is discontinued, I have heard from a reliable LLMD source that ceftaroline is a very good substitute.Also Dr Horowitz is talking a lot about it and pointing out that these are FDA approved drugs we don't need to wait.People are sick. Also the paper makes some second and third runner ups. I want to get well so I will plug my nose and take the meds. hope they have been demonised long enough to do honest research. But the research does look promising.There wording in the beginning is sketchy...PTLD etc, But they go on to disprove there own research. I heard they are re writing the IDSA guidelines??? maybe so much new info like the Embers study is backing them into a corner where they realise that research is research ,were onto all the tricks, it needs to be done right.

 

[kungfudao]

Yes??? and John Hopkins University???, But ,it was funded by Lyme Research Alliance. I have been prescribed these meds and my home Pharmacy said Cefoperazone is discontinued, I have heard from a reliable LLMD source that ceftaroline is a very good substitute.Also Dr Horowitz is talking a lot about it and pointing out that these are FDA approved drugs we don't need to wait.People are sick. Also the paper makes some second and third runner ups. I want to get well so I will plug my nose and take the meds. hope they have been demonised long enough to do honest research. But the research does look promising.There wording in the beginning is sketchy...PTLD etc, But they go on to disprove there own research. I heard they are re writing the IDSA guidelines??? maybe so much new info like the Embers study is backing them into a corner where they realise that research is research ,were onto all the tricks, it needs to be done right.

I am three days into this protocol, I'M DOING IT !!! Daptomycin, Ceftaroline, and Doxycycline for Lyme Persistors
I had to substitute the Cefoperazone for Ceftaroline. So far so good.
I posted in more detail on another blog: Doctor says lyme disease doese not exist. If you want to see more

 

[kungfudao]

16 days into the Lyme Persistor protocol definitely feeling some improvements. but far from cured. so far very tolerable ,my lung capacity has improved some.
When I exersise I don't feel myself panting and sweating so much, I remain more calm.and clarity has improved a bit.
long way to go. I'm going to stick with it.

 

[kungfudao]

Daptomycin, Ceftaroline, and Doxycycline for Lyme Persistors
Day 19 still having good and bad days, I found that I cant do Doxycycline IV anymore without a pic line. Even very slowly burns my veins ,so I'm doing Doxy 400 mg oral for know. Technically it should still have a good effect as long as I keep my blood levels high enough and consistent.
I'm waiting to hear back from my Doc for a pic line.
I'm not expecting an overnight cure.
I'm still doing the Daptomycin and Ceftaroline I.V. .Technically I'm still doing the same thing. It might even be a better option to save 3 hrs doing Doxy IV switching to oral.

 

[kungfudao]

This link has some very interesting information, on Lyme corruption,lab testing statistics,Bio warfare etc. I've brushed past it many times,but its good info.

 

[heapsreal]

Scary ?????

 

[Antares in NYC]

Terrifying