Organs dysregulate along with everything else in a crash?

[godlovesatrier]

Just a theory but it feels like when in a crash organs like the liver and kidneys slow down or back up - what some would refer to as detox pathways seem to go in reverse.

When I was more severe with symptoms exertion of most kinds would bring on diherrea as my microbiome and go tract seemed to stop working, my heart would beat more slowly and for a role it did even best fast when standing but that seemed to resolve.

Guess my question is have any studies actually shown this to be true? That the organs in a crash reduce function by like 25% until the body has pulled out of the crash.

Years ago I was perpetually crashed but now with everything I take a crash usually lasts 3 days. Although that depends on the intensity of the activity on the heart and other parts of the body.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Guess my question is have any studies actually shown this to be true?

definately I can tell my digestion is quickly affected during PEM and gut leaking increases. Inflaming also increases.

I suspect they just dont "get there" (studying this in organs).

All this talk about monitoring liver function: does anyone monitor your liver function? And if they were, what do they measure and how would a 25%
reduction inf "function"...what does that actually mean?

I agree: I bet its happening.

 

[Jyoti]

That the organs in a crash reduce function by like 25% until the body has pulled out of the crash.

I agree: I bet its happening.

I don't know of any studies, but that is surely my experience and part of how I try to explain PEM when anyone seems interested in understanding it.

 

[Judee]

Everything is cumulative so I would think so too though at the moment I am drawing a blank on if I've seen any studies on this.

 

[godlovesatrier]

It may sound silly but it never occurred to me to think of the kidneys or liver as suffering from the same effects as the muscles. Which is dumb as they all require ATP precursors to function and oxygen carried from red blood cells.

Makes me wonder if the red blood cell dysfunction Joshua Leisk saw on his microscope post vax and post crash could explain why we are so much sicker as if the blood has become very inefficient for a few days or weeks would explain why we struggle to breath, think and walk.

Anyway theories aside just wanted to check I wasn't going mad and that there weren't any studies. I guess we all know PEM studies about brain and muscles but not sure there's much else.

I imagine one day we will get an answer.

 

[keepswimming]

I was just thinking about this. Since cutting out gluten I thought my IBS was improved... But I've had a crash this week after over exertion, and the IBS symptoms are back I'm hoping and presuming it's due to PEM as I was so pleased to have found something that helped me... However I do think it makes sense. My whole body aches, and I'm sure anything that makes us feel this rough must affect internal organs too.

 

[keepswimming]

On a side note I've just been reading the book "Gut" by Giulia Enders. She says that in times of stress the body redirects blood flow to the brain from the gut, as it needs the extra energy to make decisions, which leaves the gut depleted and causes GI problems. If there is a lack of energy due to PEM perhaps the body does something similar...?

 

[godlovesatrier]

Possible the ME body does that anyway further starving the GI tract of what it needs. In principal mainly oxygen.

So that's not good :/

 

[Rufous McKinney]

She says that in times of stress the body redirects blood flow to the brain from the gut, as it needs the extra energy to make decisions, which leaves the gut depleted and causes GI problems.

I"ve definately decided my gut runs out of energy in crashes so its definitely an organ affected by PEM events.

 

[godlovesatrier]

From memory my gut alwyss went first in the early years of a crash. Whereas now my muscles or brain go first and then I assume things like my kidneys don't work optimally. Haven't had a gi crash in about 3 or 4 years. Let's just say I can't remember the last time it shut down due to PEM. Just food related events and now I've increased back up to 200 billion cfus a day my GI tract is fine again. I had some dairy tonight and it's ok so insane difference.

Conversely my ME is terrible at the moment. Brain just isn't happy. Gone from no brain fog and feeling pretty good to loads of it. Oh well.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Gone from no brain fog and feeling pretty good to loads of it. Oh well.

you've done so much work! made so much progress!

Unhappy brain. Wish somebody would ....would help us...please please?

 

[godlovesatrier]

Thanks. Doesn't feel like it at present.

I guess like anyone else who's experimented a lot my mind's just filled with more questions. Also the cost of it all. It's about £3000 for the next set of tests. Factor in cost of living and inflation and it's just unaffordable.

I'm glad I tried antivirals tho.