@caledonia if you check, camu camu is not high in vitamin c.
Multiple chemical sensitivity: Genotypic characterization, nutritional status and quality of life
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caledonia
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It's higher compared to other food sources. Food sources are always lower than artificial sources. Plus they have the benefits of additional nutrients.
Camu camu specs:
Per "100g" (19.20 tsp)
"Vitamin C - 2145 mg - Contains even more vitamin C than acerola and acai, two superfoods known for their extremely high vitamin C contents"
Source: http://www.healwithfood.org/nutrition-facts/camu-camu-vitamin-c.php#ixzz4eWwB6imu
So a reasonable serving of 1tsp
2145/19.20 = 111mg of vitamin C per teaspoon
Is that as high as ascorbic acid? No, not even close.
However, I can't take ascorbic acid or any other form of vitamin C, including other food sources. So it's either camu or nothing. I'd rather take the camu.
@caledonia
I tried many kinds of vit C and found this sodium ascorbate supposedly the easiest on my stomach I had a gastro bleed years ago and try to be careful of my gut Vit C most kinds bothers my stomach so I searched online for a safe type this this is what I found. There is something about it... I don't like I can't recall what I know I limit it to less than I should because of it... I am sorry I can't recall what it is about it so don't know if it is the type of C or the C.
I have had it in my mind to shop around for a new type... I hate wasting money.
Maybe I will try what you take.. it is organic and who knows what is in these vitamins we can't be sure. No I am not asking for the FDA to fix it... I am not. I suppose the safest thing would be to buy a farm with a green house and grow some fruit to eat.
Most first reaction that caused body jerks was staying in a hotel for a wedding.. I could barely walk did not change my clothes went in the travelling dress to the wedding a close relative I could not miss the wedding.. not without being in a hosp bed.
The cleaners or something in the room or hallways set me off big time and it lasted a wk or more. I had no idea what it was. I knew I didn't like to use their bedding or anyones as the smell bothers me so I had my own bedding.
Here is the thing with Uber... I don't have a cell phone and have not had one in about 11 maybe 12 years... I thought when I had one it was making me sick as I was always away from home and using constantly.. went from that to nothing. I think I could use the computer for uber I am not sure... can I order a car without scent...
A cab ride in Toronto for a doc apt one day was horrid... did I say this already.. the cabby showed me an orange febreeze can with an orange like it is kriptonite to me...
I was not myself at that apt and damaged a very long relationship with a reputable doctor. Fell asleep on the train coming home another wk in bed...
Do you think these reactions are actually damaging our body (brain in my case) I do wonder.
I am the same with computes as I am with phones can't tolerate too much of them tho the computer is much better as long as I take the battery out and use just the power cord. I have no idea why..something in the battery I guess bothers me, found out by accident. I bought a house phone from a previously used store and used it as a landline for a time till it broke... I need to get back and get a couple more .. stock up while they are still around.
It takes me some time to digest things and I always want to research it... more everything always.... just who I am .. then I will forget it lol.. we need a sense of humour... that is for sure.
? have you ever thought when you have a reaction that you lose your mood regulation don't say what you mean can't think... fall apart... make an ass of yourself... that is what I did at that doc apt... after 15 min in a cab with febreeze wearing a gas mask and my head out the window best I could... all windows down that is how badly it affects me... does this happen to you?
I tried many kinds of vit C and found this sodium ascorbate supposedly the easiest on my stomach I had a gastro bleed years ago and try to be careful of my gut Vit C most kinds bothers my stomach so I searched online for a safe type this this is what I found. There is something about it... I don't like I can't recall what I know I limit it to less than I should because of it... I am sorry I can't recall what it is about it so don't know if it is the type of C or the C.
I have had it in my mind to shop around for a new type... I hate wasting money.
Maybe I will try what you take.. it is organic and who knows what is in these vitamins we can't be sure. No I am not asking for the FDA to fix it... I am not. I suppose the safest thing would be to buy a farm with a green house and grow some fruit to eat.
Most first reaction that caused body jerks was staying in a hotel for a wedding.. I could barely walk did not change my clothes went in the travelling dress to the wedding a close relative I could not miss the wedding.. not without being in a hosp bed.
The cleaners or something in the room or hallways set me off big time and it lasted a wk or more. I had no idea what it was. I knew I didn't like to use their bedding or anyones as the smell bothers me so I had my own bedding.
Here is the thing with Uber... I don't have a cell phone and have not had one in about 11 maybe 12 years... I thought when I had one it was making me sick as I was always away from home and using constantly.. went from that to nothing. I think I could use the computer for uber I am not sure... can I order a car without scent...
A cab ride in Toronto for a doc apt one day was horrid... did I say this already.. the cabby showed me an orange febreeze can with an orange like it is kriptonite to me...
I was not myself at that apt and damaged a very long relationship with a reputable doctor. Fell asleep on the train coming home another wk in bed...
Do you think these reactions are actually damaging our body (brain in my case) I do wonder.
I am the same with computes as I am with phones can't tolerate too much of them tho the computer is much better as long as I take the battery out and use just the power cord. I have no idea why..something in the battery I guess bothers me, found out by accident. I bought a house phone from a previously used store and used it as a landline for a time till it broke... I need to get back and get a couple more .. stock up while they are still around.
It takes me some time to digest things and I always want to research it... more everything always.... just who I am .. then I will forget it lol.. we need a sense of humour... that is for sure.
? have you ever thought when you have a reaction that you lose your mood regulation don't say what you mean can't think... fall apart... make an ass of yourself... that is what I did at that doc apt... after 15 min in a cab with febreeze wearing a gas mask and my head out the window best I could... all windows down that is how badly it affects me... does this happen to you?
I was confused about a couple things thought glutathione vit C cause EBV to kick up but it is methylation that causes that... I am putting it here in case I forget...and I dont' have the brain power left today to read them both...
http://www.wellnessresources.com/he...s_with_epstein_barr_virus_the_sleeping_giant/
http://www.naturalblaze.com/2015/07/warning-improving-your-methylation-may.html
I will be back
http://www.wellnessresources.com/he...s_with_epstein_barr_virus_the_sleeping_giant/
http://www.naturalblaze.com/2015/07/warning-improving-your-methylation-may.html
I will be back
ok I took 500 grams of what I have and waiting to see what it was about it that bugged me so far I noticed a decline in thinking... how to make a tea became an issue but it could just be me.
and I read something else I likely have not business reading but I do that all the time... methylation is impaired by EBV and my understanding is this is protective ? maybe not sure to stomach cancers...
I am going to put it here for the person who had cancer already... in case it is of use to them and when I can think better I will weigh fixing methyl... if it seems wise... depending on what I sort out from my methyl genetics have not done that yet... been working on it a long time...
https://infectagentscancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1750-9378-5-27
here is a teaser
"
Prior studies have shown loss of three critical tumor suppressor gene products, CDH1 (E-cadherin), p73, and CDKN2A (p16), in EBV-infected gastric cancers [9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18]. Virus-associated methylation of these genes, along with evidence of global DNA methylation in EBV-positive cancers, suggests that EBV-related gastric cancers are a subset of CpG island methylator phenotype (CIMP) cancers [4, 11, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26]. A potential mediator is DNA methyltransferase 1 (DNMT1) that is upregulated in naturally infected gastric cancers and could help establish methylation patterns propagated to daughter cells upon cell division [21, 27, 28, 29]. Ongoing studies are aimed at understanding the role of EBV and Helicobacter pylori infection in causing inflammation and associated global hypermethylation during gastric cancer development [22].
In cell line models, DNMT1 overexpression is mediated by EBV LMP1 and LMP2 [21, 28, 29, 30, 31]. EBV seems to employ epigenetic mechanisms to control the host transcriptome and also to control expression of its own virally encoded genes [11, 12, 14, 15, 19, 21, 24, 29, 32, 33]. Upon initial infection of a cell, the unmethylated viral genome can undergo viral replication with new virion production, while a subset of infected cells acquire a highly methylated viral genome that squelches expression of foreign proteins and mediates long-term viral persistence by way of latent infection [23, 34]. Infected tumors tend to have highly methylated EBV DNA, and methylation-related silencing of viral genes helps explain how infected tumors evade immune destruction.
While methylation of gene promoters is typically associated with transcriptional downregulation via selective binding of repressor proteins, the first protein ever shown to bind and activate a methylated promoter was EBV BZLF1, the key factor controlling the switch from latent to replicative forms of viral infection [35]. It appears that the virus has cleverly evolved a means of overcoming promoter methylation to its advantage [34, 35]. Antiviral strategies are being explored for their antineoplastic potential. Interestingly, the most commonly used antiviral agents, acyclovir and ganciclovir, are effective at shutting down viral replication but they do not eliminate expression of latent and early lytic viral genes such as LMP1, LMP2 and BZLF1.
The clinical implications of EBV-related methylation of the gastric cancer genome are immense. First, emerging evidence shows the potential for improved diagnosis of gastric cancer by testing gastric washes for cancer-specific methylation patterns, perhaps in concert with tests for EBV to identify the virus-infected subset of cancers [36, 37, 38, 39, 40]. Differing patterns of promoter methylation in virus-positive compared to virus-negative cells [11, 21, 24] emphasize the need to characterize methylation patterns in a manner that that maximizes assay sensitivity for cancer detection. Both infection and altered DNA methylation appear to be early events in carcinogenesis [2, 41], potentially facilitating detection of precancerous lesions in stomach juice.
A second clinical implication is the potential for improved treatment of gastric cancer using drugs that reverse the effect of promoter hypermethylation [42, 43]. In particular, demethylating agents that inhibit DNA methyltransferase and reverse tumor suppressor gene silencing or oncogene activation are potential antineoplastic strategies [43]. Consideration must be given to possible differences in the effect of demethylating agents in virus-positive versus virus-negative tumors [43, 44, 45]. We and others have shown that naturally infected gastric cancers have lower CDKN2A (p16) expression [14, 15]. In a clinical trial of fluorouracil (5FU) for gastric cancer, CDKN2A promoter methylation status was an independent predictor of survival [46]. The rationale for using demethylating agents like 5-aza-2'-deoxycytidine in clinical trials rests on scientific evidence that demethylating therapy modifies the tumorigenic properties of cancer cells.
Several investigators have successfully infected epithelial cell lines with EBV in vitro[47, 48]. In the current study, EBV-positive and EBV-negative AGS gastric cancer cells were examined for differences in gene expression patterns using low-density microarray analysis and reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction (rtPCR). AGS is a cell line that was originally grown from gastric adenocarcinoma tissue and now is widely used as a model of gastric cancer. The role of DNA methylation in mediating selected effects was examined by bisulfite DNA sequencing and by testing the ability of a demethylating agent to reverse the effect of EBV on gene silencing. Results revealed extensive gene dysregulation upon EBV infection in AGS cells with evidence that promoter methylation is responsible, at least in part. Reversal of virus-associated transcriptional effects suggests that demethylating agents should be explored for their potential to control growth of EBV-related malignancies.
Conclusions
EBV infection had a profound effect on expression of IGFBP3. Unlike IGFBP3 transcripts which were upregulated, most of the tested gene were downregulated by EBV infection. Methylation may be a common mechanism for diverse effects of viral infection. To the extent that viral infection is associated with methylation in vivo, demethylating agents could provide a unified therapeutic approach to overcoming viral effects.
Demethylating agents are already used clinically for managing certain neoplasms [98], and their efficacy in EBV-related gastric cancer should be considered. Our pilot data shows frequent and substantial restoration of multiple transcripts in 5aza-treated, infected cells. Pilot sequencing data identify selective effects of virus infection and 5aza treatment on promoter methylation, providing an impetus for further work to characterize viral-mediated effects and to understand how treatments might be devised to overcome viral effects in tumor cells.
This may be the wrong place of this if so move it to where you think it is ok
and I read something else I likely have not business reading but I do that all the time... methylation is impaired by EBV and my understanding is this is protective ? maybe not sure to stomach cancers...
I am going to put it here for the person who had cancer already... in case it is of use to them and when I can think better I will weigh fixing methyl... if it seems wise... depending on what I sort out from my methyl genetics have not done that yet... been working on it a long time...
https://infectagentscancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1750-9378-5-27
here is a teaser
"
Prior studies have shown loss of three critical tumor suppressor gene products, CDH1 (E-cadherin), p73, and CDKN2A (p16), in EBV-infected gastric cancers [9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18]. Virus-associated methylation of these genes, along with evidence of global DNA methylation in EBV-positive cancers, suggests that EBV-related gastric cancers are a subset of CpG island methylator phenotype (CIMP) cancers [4, 11, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26]. A potential mediator is DNA methyltransferase 1 (DNMT1) that is upregulated in naturally infected gastric cancers and could help establish methylation patterns propagated to daughter cells upon cell division [21, 27, 28, 29]. Ongoing studies are aimed at understanding the role of EBV and Helicobacter pylori infection in causing inflammation and associated global hypermethylation during gastric cancer development [22].
In cell line models, DNMT1 overexpression is mediated by EBV LMP1 and LMP2 [21, 28, 29, 30, 31]. EBV seems to employ epigenetic mechanisms to control the host transcriptome and also to control expression of its own virally encoded genes [11, 12, 14, 15, 19, 21, 24, 29, 32, 33]. Upon initial infection of a cell, the unmethylated viral genome can undergo viral replication with new virion production, while a subset of infected cells acquire a highly methylated viral genome that squelches expression of foreign proteins and mediates long-term viral persistence by way of latent infection [23, 34]. Infected tumors tend to have highly methylated EBV DNA, and methylation-related silencing of viral genes helps explain how infected tumors evade immune destruction.
While methylation of gene promoters is typically associated with transcriptional downregulation via selective binding of repressor proteins, the first protein ever shown to bind and activate a methylated promoter was EBV BZLF1, the key factor controlling the switch from latent to replicative forms of viral infection [35]. It appears that the virus has cleverly evolved a means of overcoming promoter methylation to its advantage [34, 35]. Antiviral strategies are being explored for their antineoplastic potential. Interestingly, the most commonly used antiviral agents, acyclovir and ganciclovir, are effective at shutting down viral replication but they do not eliminate expression of latent and early lytic viral genes such as LMP1, LMP2 and BZLF1.
The clinical implications of EBV-related methylation of the gastric cancer genome are immense. First, emerging evidence shows the potential for improved diagnosis of gastric cancer by testing gastric washes for cancer-specific methylation patterns, perhaps in concert with tests for EBV to identify the virus-infected subset of cancers [36, 37, 38, 39, 40]. Differing patterns of promoter methylation in virus-positive compared to virus-negative cells [11, 21, 24] emphasize the need to characterize methylation patterns in a manner that that maximizes assay sensitivity for cancer detection. Both infection and altered DNA methylation appear to be early events in carcinogenesis [2, 41], potentially facilitating detection of precancerous lesions in stomach juice.
A second clinical implication is the potential for improved treatment of gastric cancer using drugs that reverse the effect of promoter hypermethylation [42, 43]. In particular, demethylating agents that inhibit DNA methyltransferase and reverse tumor suppressor gene silencing or oncogene activation are potential antineoplastic strategies [43]. Consideration must be given to possible differences in the effect of demethylating agents in virus-positive versus virus-negative tumors [43, 44, 45]. We and others have shown that naturally infected gastric cancers have lower CDKN2A (p16) expression [14, 15]. In a clinical trial of fluorouracil (5FU) for gastric cancer, CDKN2A promoter methylation status was an independent predictor of survival [46]. The rationale for using demethylating agents like 5-aza-2'-deoxycytidine in clinical trials rests on scientific evidence that demethylating therapy modifies the tumorigenic properties of cancer cells.
Several investigators have successfully infected epithelial cell lines with EBV in vitro[47, 48]. In the current study, EBV-positive and EBV-negative AGS gastric cancer cells were examined for differences in gene expression patterns using low-density microarray analysis and reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction (rtPCR). AGS is a cell line that was originally grown from gastric adenocarcinoma tissue and now is widely used as a model of gastric cancer. The role of DNA methylation in mediating selected effects was examined by bisulfite DNA sequencing and by testing the ability of a demethylating agent to reverse the effect of EBV on gene silencing. Results revealed extensive gene dysregulation upon EBV infection in AGS cells with evidence that promoter methylation is responsible, at least in part. Reversal of virus-associated transcriptional effects suggests that demethylating agents should be explored for their potential to control growth of EBV-related malignancies.
Conclusions
EBV infection had a profound effect on expression of IGFBP3. Unlike IGFBP3 transcripts which were upregulated, most of the tested gene were downregulated by EBV infection. Methylation may be a common mechanism for diverse effects of viral infection. To the extent that viral infection is associated with methylation in vivo, demethylating agents could provide a unified therapeutic approach to overcoming viral effects.
Demethylating agents are already used clinically for managing certain neoplasms [98], and their efficacy in EBV-related gastric cancer should be considered. Our pilot data shows frequent and substantial restoration of multiple transcripts in 5aza-treated, infected cells. Pilot sequencing data identify selective effects of virus infection and 5aza treatment on promoter methylation, providing an impetus for further work to characterize viral-mediated effects and to understand how treatments might be devised to overcome viral effects in tumor cells.
This may be the wrong place of this if so move it to where you think it is ok
caledonia
Senior Member
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- 4,617
@caledonia
I tried many kinds of vit C and found this sodium ascorbate supposedly the easiest on my stomach I had a gastro bleed years ago and try to be careful of my gut Vit C most kinds bothers my stomach so I searched online for a safe type this this is what I found. There is something about it... I don't like I can't recall what I know I limit it to less than I should because of it... I am sorry I can't recall what it is about it so don't know if it is the type of C or the C.
I have had it in my mind to shop around for a new type... I hate wasting money.
Maybe I will try what you take.. it is organic and who knows what is in these vitamins we can't be sure. No I am not asking for the FDA to fix it... I am not. I suppose the safest thing would be to buy a farm with a green house and grow some fruit to eat.
You may be able to mix the vitamin C with some magnesium to buffer it (assuming the issue is it's too acidic).
I've had body jerks. When I first go sick, my stomach was hurting so my doc wanted me to get a CAT scan. They had me drink this barium stuff. It turns out I was chemically intolerant to the carrier for the barium. I had a horrible toxic reaction that lasted 6 weeks. I felt so poisoned I went to the ER a few times over it. Of course, they couldn't find anything. Anyway, I remember walking into the ER, jerking involuntarily. They asked me why that was happening. I had no idea.
Not surprised. Could have been cleaning products, pesticides sprayed for bugs, general offgassing of the carpet or furniture - any number of things.
Here is the thing with Uber... I don't have a cell phone and have not had one in about 11 maybe 12 years... I thought when I had one it was making me sick as I was always away from home and using constantly.. went from that to nothing. I think I could use the computer for uber I am not sure... can I order a car without scent...
A cab ride in Toronto for a doc apt one day was horrid... did I say this already.. the cabby showed me an orange febreeze can with an orange like it is kriptonite to me...
I was not myself at that apt and damaged a very long relationship with a reputable doctor. Fell asleep on the train coming home another wk in bed...
I don't have a smart phone either. I've been thinking about you making this trip. It would be very difficult to impossible for me now. Back when I had more MCS - no way. I think it's probably a bad idea, but I threw it out there, just in case. Some people are healthier than others, and could make a trip like that. The other thing is, you would probably have to go back at least once a year to keep getting the drops.
I think if there is any damage, it's only temporary, like being drunk. I would guess you would have to have a lot of heavy long term exposure to have permanent damage.
I've started having an issue with my Roku clicker. I had a wifi one - it was zapping me bad. I switched back to an infrared one. I still get some zaps but it's tolerable. I've never had this until I started chelating. It's supposed to be a mercury issue, so I guess I am moving some around.
At any rate I can use this as a gauge of how well I'm doing. If it gets better, I know I'm improving.
Very important to have one with this disease!
The mood things I get are spacey and dopey, and anxious to the point of panic attacks. I haven't had anything where I would get irritable, or cry or something like that. But I wouldn't rule out those as being reactions from chemicals.
Last edited:
caledonia
Senior Member
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- 4,617
@btdt
I did want to let you know one hopeful thing. I've been chelating for about 6 months. I was using a Sharpie marker for a minute the other day, and noticed it was bothering me a lot less. The smell wasn't that bad, and I wasn't spacy from it. Normally it has a very "loud" horrible chemical smell.
I'm only taking 4.5mg of ALA and have only been able to do half rounds, so I'm surprised to see progress like that so soon. I've had a few other improvements with mood. All brain stuff so far, no energy improvements as yet.
I did want to let you know one hopeful thing. I've been chelating for about 6 months. I was using a Sharpie marker for a minute the other day, and noticed it was bothering me a lot less. The smell wasn't that bad, and I wasn't spacy from it. Normally it has a very "loud" horrible chemical smell.
I'm only taking 4.5mg of ALA and have only been able to do half rounds, so I'm surprised to see progress like that so soon. I've had a few other improvements with mood. All brain stuff so far, no energy improvements as yet.
I read that taking ALA was a bad idea and stopped taking it.. I have to stop being so reactive to what i read... there is no general thing that is right for everybody I should know that by now. I backslide when i am sick too long and want to buy in I need to guard against that. Hospitals have long been 50/50 place for me good for an obvious infection stitches and setting broken bones ... the rest of it is the other 50 drug reactions anaphylaxis ect not so much... same is sadly to be said of my doctor.
Soon there will be nobody at the rate I am going the internet is not medical care but what else can a person do when the right medical care is missing.
I had thought of wifi being a part of my problem too but where i live this is how it is...should i move to my own place I will not have it. or a batter phone... or a lot of other things that I think make me sick here.
moving to my own place will deplete my assets to a point that paying for care will be off the list... that is why i persist... to get to past these years of waiting on waiting lists... even as i say it the situation seems ridiculous because it is.
I had a couple of infected teeth pulled in the last few months and took a lot of drugs and pain killers to get thru it.. the one antibiotic seems to stop my jerking... testing after did not find any infection to treat - yes I have thought of buying antibiotic on line ... haven't yet. A lot of the drugs I was on mess with me... so it may be in time i wlll come around but it is taking long... sometimes it takes long with me.
On chelating the point of the prevous sentence which I forgot ... the teeth removed had silver fillings tho the dentist who put them in says he did not use mercury fillings who knows... they sure looked like mercury i don't have a metal tester. the nd i was seeing had me try chelation with braley grass and one other.... I can't recall it always made me ill no idea why.
i am thinking of seeking a different sort of doctor functional medicine maybe. Not sure where I am headed still trying to sort it. thanks for you help.
Soon there will be nobody at the rate I am going the internet is not medical care but what else can a person do when the right medical care is missing.
I had thought of wifi being a part of my problem too but where i live this is how it is...should i move to my own place I will not have it. or a batter phone... or a lot of other things that I think make me sick here.
moving to my own place will deplete my assets to a point that paying for care will be off the list... that is why i persist... to get to past these years of waiting on waiting lists... even as i say it the situation seems ridiculous because it is.
I had a couple of infected teeth pulled in the last few months and took a lot of drugs and pain killers to get thru it.. the one antibiotic seems to stop my jerking... testing after did not find any infection to treat - yes I have thought of buying antibiotic on line ... haven't yet. A lot of the drugs I was on mess with me... so it may be in time i wlll come around but it is taking long... sometimes it takes long with me.
On chelating the point of the prevous sentence which I forgot ... the teeth removed had silver fillings tho the dentist who put them in says he did not use mercury fillings who knows... they sure looked like mercury i don't have a metal tester. the nd i was seeing had me try chelation with braley grass and one other.... I can't recall it always made me ill no idea why.
i am thinking of seeking a different sort of doctor functional medicine maybe. Not sure where I am headed still trying to sort it. thanks for you help.
I have tried to re read this thread and I do not have what it takes to pull it off today.. I wanted to add some reading in case you people like research as I found a couple of interesting things without even looking ... ok I can't recall if I was looking or not...but in case you have not read these and in case there is something important in them I am putting them here for more able people to look at. I lose track of what I am doing so I can't be trusted to do this right now.
there might be something here I really like the guy wish he has said how to treat it I don't think he did but I can't really recall he found other things about mcs nobody else has noted...
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...de025/1410769410474/Killing+Us+Softly+1.3.pdf
And this is a study of some sort if your interested in one thing or antohter search it as it is big.
http://www.meao.ca/files/Recognition_Inclusion_Equity-full.pdf
I found the link above at this site here it is cfs... ect.
k that is me done I think
I will be back
there might be something here I really like the guy wish he has said how to treat it I don't think he did but I can't really recall he found other things about mcs nobody else has noted...
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...de025/1410769410474/Killing+Us+Softly+1.3.pdf
And this is a study of some sort if your interested in one thing or antohter search it as it is big.
http://www.meao.ca/files/Recognition_Inclusion_Equity-full.pdf
I found the link above at this site here it is cfs... ect.
k that is me done I think
I will be back
HowToEscape?
Senior Member
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- 626
It's science. Science is not specifically dedicated to you, or me, or anyone else in particular.
What I was asking was does knowing these results help to treat cfs mcs in any way... not does science bow down to my demands.. and some how treat me specifically... that is an odd take on it but it may be me...
of course science is not working for me... not at all. kind of funny actually... get to work science find me a cure... cracks a whip or should it be big bonus in your account the second you find a cure... you can then retire if you choose too... ya the latter. If I ruled the world and science worked for me.
of course science is not working for me... not at all. kind of funny actually... get to work science find me a cure... cracks a whip or should it be big bonus in your account the second you find a cure... you can then retire if you choose too... ya the latter. If I ruled the world and science worked for me.