Looking for a NO copper/iodine multi (with folate/methylb12)

[DFams]

It seems like I may be asking a great deal here...

But I cannot for the life of me find a multi vitamin mineral complex with the important nutrients WITHOUT both copper and potassium iodide in it...

It also needs to have Folate and Methyl B12 (or adenosyl/hydroxy, since some do) rather than Folic Acid or Cyanocobalamin, and no chromium picolinate (has to be polynicotinate). Preferably no Iron, but I can live with that at least I guess...

The only one I can find with even close to these specifics is the 950 (without copper/iron/iodine).
http://www.pureencapsulations.com/nutrient-950-w-o-cu-fe-iodine.html
However basically all the trace minerals in it are of the "aspartate" form... which I read is an excitotoxin... not sure if this is really a problem or not, but I'd rather not spend 45 dollars on something like that.

Does anyone know of any other multis that fit the above description? Or am I indeed asking way too much?...

EDIT: Forgot to mention I have dozens of food allergies... so most "food based vitamin blends" are also out of the question lol... particularly if they have carrots, asparagus, or anything from the squash/yams family. Also can't tolerate S cerevisiae at all (like in megafoods), unfortunately.

 

[DFams]

Now that I think about it, if I were to take a Multi that has all of the above specs... but had copper in it in a small dose (like 1mg), and I just took extra zinc WITH that multi... would that be enough to block absorption of the copper, for the most part?...

Or would the extra zinc (say 50mg in total) block anything else?

I have very bad copper toxicity, so I really need to in fact detox it... and block any more uptake of it...

Would really appreciate any thoughts here...

 

[aaron_c]

Hi @DFams

The multi you found looks good to me, although I don't think that beta carotene is an ideal way to supplement vitamin A (I know experts disagree on that one).

In case you haven't run into this, some of us like to use separate the b-complex, folates, and B12. Different people seem to prefer different balances of folates to B12 and seem to prefer folinic acid to methylfolate (or visa versa) or prefer methylcobalamin to hydroxycobalamin (or visa versa). I am also under the impression that B12 more effectively reaches the bloodstream when given as a lozenge. B-minus by seekinghealth is a b-complex that doesn't include folates or B12.

I take zinc aspartate and that hasn't been a problem for me. Perhaps aspartic acid is only an issue for some people at higher concentrations?

When I have experimented with taking small amounts of copper with a somewhat hefty dose of zinc, I found that the zinc never entirely blocked the copper from being absorbed--or at least the copper would seem to induce a few "copper"-type symptoms.

Good luck finding something that works well for you.

 

[DFams]

Thank you very much for your response.

I actually didn't know about B minus, or Folinic Acid for that matter, that would probably help a lot... I might have to look into those.

Cus I was feeling a lot better for a bit, and then it got much much worse... And I can't tell if it's because I'm suddenly overmethylating really bad again, or simply missing all other Cofactors for Glutathione production... which is very much so my biggest "direct" problem (glutathione deficiency), and my biggest hurdle by far in actually recovering... as well as detoxing my copper.

I'm almost positive it's the latter though (missing all other glutathione cofactors), which is why I'm looking for such a specific multi... my digestion is very poor, and very limited to the 'amount' of supplements I can take on daily basis, before I get negative symptoms from it... and complexes seem to directly address this limitation.

I also realized that I very clearly have a CBS upregulation problem (which explains the glutathione deficiency, problems I've had with sulfur my whole life, allergies to sulfa drugs, ammonia problems and protein in urine, etc etc), making it very difficult for me.

Ya I don't know enough about aspartic acid though, only that I read from a few different sources that it was bad, but I don't really know... nothing I'm taking currently has it in it so I can't really "test" it. And I'd hate to pay 45 dollars and find out it causes me problems, or isn't very good for absorbing whichever minerals it's bound to or w/e.

As far as the copper type symptoms you get... is it possible that the hefty doses of zinc themselves are antagonizing your own copper stores into causing you said symptoms? And not so much the copper source you take?

I just feel too, like 1mg copper in my current multi isn't that much... but after all... this copper toxicity IS the reason I'm so sick, and I don't know if I want to take the chance of making myself even MORE toxic, and harder to detox... even taking it with copper antagonists and binders like zinc, molybdenum, C, b6, etc... sigh.

Really tough call... cus the multi itself does seem to be helping my glutathione production a great deal, as well as my hormones, and making me "feel" better overall... but at what cost?

 

[DFams]

Ya know even if I could just find a multi mineral complex that doesn't have copper, iodine, or iron in it... and then a multi vitamin with A C E D K and B (with folate/methyl 12 or something similar to what you mentioned), and simply take them both... that would be fine too.

In fact, that would be better since it seems like I need more minerals than vitamins at this point...

But I can't even seem to find a multi mineral like that either...

 

[aaron_c]

if I could just find a multi mineral complex that doesn't have copper, iodine, or iron in it... and then a multi vitamin with A C E D K and B (with folate/methyl 12 or something similar to what you mentioned), and simply take them both... that would be fine too.

That's what I do. I think it comes down to how much effort you are able to put into managing these things. A single multi is much easier to order and much easier to take than fifteen kinds of pills each day. If your brain is up for a bit more complexity, you could take something like b-minus along with something like pic-mins for the trace minerals and then add everything else piecemeal (magnesium, possibly calcium, CoQ10, phospholipids, fat-soluable vitamins, folates, B12s, et).

But like I said, the multivitamin you were looking at actually seems pretty good to me. You might be able to use the Nutrient 950 as a base and add a few things that you would like more of--possibly experiment with various forms of folate, as you mentioned.

As far as the copper type symptoms you get... is it possible that the hefty doses of zinc themselves are antagonizing your own copper stores into causing you said symptoms? And not so much the copper source you take?

Po-tae-toe po-tah-toe, as we say. I think it was both what you said and what I said: I think my problem with zinc is at least partly to do with not enough of the Zn/Cu storage protein metallothionein. So yes, all the zinc I take probably competed with copper--like a game of musical chairs where there is never enough room for everyone to sit down. But I also know that my "copper" symptoms don't occur when I didn't take the extra copper. But I never tried taking just the extra copper and no zinc.

I don't think everyone here has my problems with zinc, though, so I'm not sure how much my experience with zinc pertains to yours. Perhaps if you find a multi without copper you will be able to add copper yourself and see what happens?

 

[DFams]

thanks again for the response.

yea i might try that multi i linked... i'm just not sure still how i feel about the aspartates, and also now reading too much vitamin A, or beta carotene, from taking multis is really bad, so i don't really know.

i feel like im so damn close to getting better.. so many good things are happening again, but now this damn hump that i can't seem to get over. which by the way, i realized was indeed due to "overmethylation" happening again after all...

definitely because im taking too much methyl supplements in my b complex, along with b2 which i read causes even further methyl group metabolization. i still think i need a full multi for other deficiencies and glutathione cofactors anyway... but for now something like the b minus you mentioned is looking really good.

the problem i have with that now though, is that it uses inositol hexaniacinate... which i read is bad for your liver... and my liver is already in very very bad shape... i think ill make a seperate post asking people what they think about this, and a couple other things, though.

 

[DFams]

oh....... that multi i linked originally has waaaaaayyyy too many methyl vitamins lol, even more than my b complex... as well as inositol hexaniacinate too, anyway. that's not gonna work either.

sigh