Has anyone just ignored all these SNPs and just juiced to detox the natural way? I've heard so many success stories of really toxic and sick people juicing and they got better. And you know they had to have SNPs to or they probably wouldn't have been sick in the first place. Just a thought...
Juicing
- Thread starter tizmo
- Start date
Jarod
Senior Member
- Messages
- 784
- Location
- planet earth
I've found juicing a help. A little fresh squeezed lemon and olive oil can help my liver issues. You may want to be very careful with the oil with your liver so weak though. It is a classic liver treatment used to purge the bile in to the stomach and lower acidity. A little flax fiber works well with about a half of lemon and a teaspoon of olive oil.
Beets and beet juice may be noticeable at times with my liver situation. I mix it with carrots, apples, spinach, cabbage, etc.
I haven't been serious enough to do it longterm. Slayadragon does juicing.
Beets and beet juice may be noticeable at times with my liver situation. I mix it with carrots, apples, spinach, cabbage, etc.
I haven't been serious enough to do it longterm. Slayadragon does juicing.
Lotus97
Senior Member
- Messages
- 2,041
- Location
- United States
Some people have a problem with sugar in general or fructose specifically. Also, if toxins are being released, you'll need fiber and/or other binders to bind to the toxins or they'll be redistributed into your body.
Juicing always bad me feel violently sick and much worse if i carry on. My guess is that "all those people" don't have ME and CFS. My local support group is full of people who found juicing harmful or useless.
I'm very skeptical of the idea of a "detox" and juicing as being a useful way to do anything. It's all so wooly and lacks specific scientific basis.
If ME and CFS were cured by juicing we won't need these groups. I would have been cured decades ago.
I'm very skeptical of the idea of a "detox" and juicing as being a useful way to do anything. It's all so wooly and lacks specific scientific basis.
If ME and CFS were cured by juicing we won't need these groups. I would have been cured decades ago.
Asklipia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 999
Juicing concentrates folates. I did not find it a good idea because it exacerbated the paradoxical folate deficiency.
The Gerson Therapy used juicing but added substantial amount of raw liver to it.
It ME/CFS is linked to a problem assimilating or converting folates, adding loads of folates at one go would be a shock.
A bit like eating a pot of honey for a diabetic.
I am not surprised if juicing makes you sick.
It does not make me sick anymore, but I do not do it for more than a couple of days when I am driven to it. In fact I do not do this anymore, except for making preserves (ginger or lemon juice icecubes).
Be well!
Asklipia
The Gerson Therapy used juicing but added substantial amount of raw liver to it.
It ME/CFS is linked to a problem assimilating or converting folates, adding loads of folates at one go would be a shock.
A bit like eating a pot of honey for a diabetic.
I am not surprised if juicing makes you sick.
It does not make me sick anymore, but I do not do it for more than a couple of days when I am driven to it. In fact I do not do this anymore, except for making preserves (ginger or lemon juice icecubes).
Be well!
Asklipia
yes, i have done very well from juicing.
But its been a long process... and I am not sure I could accurately describe all the ins and outs...
Spent a long time just doing The Perrin technique (one way manual lymph drainage) to remove toxins and rest (I would say this was the foundation and contributes 50%).
From this and for the first time, I was able to tolerate some supplements. I paced supplements and stop/started them so as not tl relapse.
I eliminated all wheat and gluten. It has taken many many months to see results from this but I am certsin this is big factor.
Whilst building up my norishement in order to begin a proper detox, I eliminated all the crap.
I got an earthing sheet as I feel this is norishing too.
I then incorporated raw food with every meal, for digestive enzymes.
I then started one juice a day. I recall if I had more I would feel ill.
I paced my juicing.
I now juice a lot and enjoy a lot of raw food eg. I had cucumber and avacado soup the other day and it was beauty in a bowl
I am just starting to sprout seeds like alfalfa etc. to eat each day.
Its all coming right...
I was strong enough to do a short fast....this was beneficial
then I just had a lot of soups and juices plus my multi-anti oxidants...
The sunshine haz helped me with the warmth and vitamin D and I think several things have come together...
I concentrated on green juices but also I have no problem with fruit. I love cherries, grapes, anything sweet
But its been a long process... and I am not sure I could accurately describe all the ins and outs...
Spent a long time just doing The Perrin technique (one way manual lymph drainage) to remove toxins and rest (I would say this was the foundation and contributes 50%).
From this and for the first time, I was able to tolerate some supplements. I paced supplements and stop/started them so as not tl relapse.
I eliminated all wheat and gluten. It has taken many many months to see results from this but I am certsin this is big factor.
Whilst building up my norishement in order to begin a proper detox, I eliminated all the crap.
I got an earthing sheet as I feel this is norishing too.
I then incorporated raw food with every meal, for digestive enzymes.
I then started one juice a day. I recall if I had more I would feel ill.
I paced my juicing.
I now juice a lot and enjoy a lot of raw food eg. I had cucumber and avacado soup the other day and it was beauty in a bowl
I am just starting to sprout seeds like alfalfa etc. to eat each day.
Its all coming right...
I was strong enough to do a short fast....this was beneficial
then I just had a lot of soups and juices plus my multi-anti oxidants...
The sunshine haz helped me with the warmth and vitamin D and I think several things have come together...
I concentrated on green juices but also I have no problem with fruit. I love cherries, grapes, anything sweet
Jarod
Senior Member
- Messages
- 784
- Location
- planet earth
I have enchephalitis more than physical fatigue. My heart and blood pressure has always been healthy. My liver is sensitive to medications, but my stomach has always been able to tolerate most foods. Don't have any problems with tolerating most supplements. Supplements that pull minerals, like chelators give me troubles.
Asklipia
Is that raw liver? Like meat? or the liver type supplements?
I like these liver supplements occasionally, and I can tolerate most every supplement without problems. Those supplement have pulled me out of a couple of tough spots when I get pale stools etc..Can't tolerate them for more than a few days though unfortunately.
Asklipia
Is that raw liver? Like meat? or the liver type supplements?
I like these liver supplements occasionally, and I can tolerate most every supplement without problems. Those supplement have pulled me out of a couple of tough spots when I get pale stools etc..Can't tolerate them for more than a few days though unfortunately.
Mr. Cat
Senior Member
- Messages
- 156
- Location
- Nothern California
I tried juicing about 8 years ago when I had all sorts of candida and digestive issues, and couldn't handle it because most of the things I was juicing were good-tasting, and thus sugary, like apples, beets and carrots. My digestion is much better now, and I started juicing several months ago again, this time with mostly alkaline, green vegetables, with celery and the occasional carrot for volume. I make sure to put kale in there, as it's a "superfood." I mix it with protein powder, flax seed and a banana in a shake in the morning. The first two days I did it, I had headaches, perhaps due to something detoxing. After that, I would feel very energized, almost high, by the juice I made. Now I've been doing it regularly (2-3 times a week for a few months), and sadly, the juice doesn't make me feel high anymore. I take a $#!+-load of supplements, but I think raw, juiced greens are a much more efficient delivery method.
I take a $#!+-load of supplements, but I think raw, juiced greens are a much more efficient delivery method.
Lotus97
Senior Member
- Messages
- 2,041
- Location
- United States
I actually do drink various green drinks mixed with various "reds" (freeze-dried pomegranate, goji, and acai) and also triphala with extra amla. I have them once a day with my protein shake. I just don't have a juicer to make them from fresh veggies.
Asklipia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 999
Jarod
Yes it was raw liver. I used to take some every day at one point and it helped me, that was years ago. I would buy a fresh liver from a butcher I was sure of, saying it was for giving raw to a sick child. Then cut it into cubes and freeze. That got rid of quite a bit of any bugs I believe, which may or may not have been there. then I would pop up a couple with a dash of lemon every day.
In quite a lot of countries pregnant women are fed a good plate of raw liver twice a week, to ensure that the baby is optimal and the mother does not suffer osteoporosis and loss of teeth.
golden
Wheat grass juice is extremely high in folates. This is why it gives a kick. Once I drank one offered by a friend who pressed it in front of me and I could not feel normal for days. I had even wondered if she had put something in it.
EXCITATORY!!!!!!!!!
Goes with wheat in general I suppose.
Be well!
Asklipia
Yes it was raw liver. I used to take some every day at one point and it helped me, that was years ago. I would buy a fresh liver from a butcher I was sure of, saying it was for giving raw to a sick child. Then cut it into cubes and freeze. That got rid of quite a bit of any bugs I believe, which may or may not have been there. then I would pop up a couple with a dash of lemon every day.
In quite a lot of countries pregnant women are fed a good plate of raw liver twice a week, to ensure that the baby is optimal and the mother does not suffer osteoporosis and loss of teeth.
golden
Wheat grass juice is extremely high in folates. This is why it gives a kick. Once I drank one offered by a friend who pressed it in front of me and I could not feel normal for days. I had even wondered if she had put something in it.
EXCITATORY!!!!!!!!!
Goes with wheat in general I suppose.
Be well!
Asklipia
Lotus97
Senior Member
- Messages
- 2,041
- Location
- United States
The amount of folate in most food is rather small compared to the doses some people are taking.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-011112000000000000000-w.html
Plus, plant folate isn't in the reduced form (folinic acid or methylfolate). Some people are more sensitive to folate though.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-011112000000000000000-w.html
Plus, plant folate isn't in the reduced form (folinic acid or methylfolate). Some people are more sensitive to folate though.
slayadragon
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,122
- Location
- twitpic.com/photos/SlayaDragon
Fresh juice has a lot of enzymes in it as well as a lot of various vitamins/minerals/"micronutrients." Especially if people's diets have been deficient in these things in the past, or if their digestive system is in bad enough shape that they are not absorbing nutrition from their food or from nutritional supplements, this can be helpful.
But there are a lot of other reasons that people cannot detox other than lack of nutrients or enzymes. So if there are other problems that haven't been addressed, the juice may not make much of a difference. Juicing also can be hard on the system, due to the various "anti-nutrients" in some produce (these generally become less problematic when foods are cooked) and the high amounts of sugar.
Some produce is quite detoxifying but only can be helpful if used in the right way, since it isn't enough by itself to get the toxins out of the system unless everything else is in place. One of the most temporarily disastrous things I've done for my health was to try a cilantro juice enema (and this was only a year ago, long after I got to "mostly well" status). I went from fully functional to basically bedridden within a couple of hours, and did not recover at all for quite a while. What I concluded was that the cilantro is very good at grabbing mercury and other metals from the tissue and bone stores, but that it does not hang onto the metals tightly enough to escort them all the way out of the body. FInally I started doing EDTA suppositories and the problem resolved almost immediately. How long it would have taken my system to dump all that loosened-up mercury without the EDTA, I don't know. But I definitely can see how even drinking cilantro juice could be catastrophic, for many people with this illness who have not resolved a lot of problems already.
When I had active CFS, I occasionally made juice and found that it felt like a good thing. I would imagine that nutritional deficiencies are problematic enough in this disease (due to digestive disturbances as well as challenges in preparing a healthy diet) that some super-concentrated produce might be really helpful. Substituting homemade vegetable broth (e.g. onions, celery, carrots, other stuff) for water was something that I felt like was equally good or maybe better, back when I was really sick.
More recently, as I've moved toward recovery, I've done phases with the juice. A lot of what I do is really intensive detox, interspersed with "building" phases where my body seems to crave as much nutrition as possible. Juice seems to be part of the building phase. I tend to do more juicing in winter (because juiceable produce such as carrots, apples, celery, etc. is more available then) and more green smoothies in summer (when I can get things like peaches and strawberries). Sometimes I go through stages of just eating cooked food. In general, I think that the body will tell you what it needs and that it's best to just listen to it.
While I've yet to meet anyone who said they got better from even mild CFS through juicing, I've encountered enough people who credit partial or even full recoveries to Gerson that I think this may be worth looking into. Gerson includes 13 glasses of mild juices (carrot, granny smith apple, mild greens, orange); 5 coffee enemas; a goodly amount of cooked vegetables; and a few supplements. I am suspicious about this because it doesn't include any protein (originally raw liver was included, now just liver shots) -- CFS sufferers seem to do better on meat, perhaps because trichothecenes act as protein synthesis inhibitors. And it really is an enormous amount of work (and a fair amount of money) to do Gerson -- having a well person to do all the food preparation is pretty much mandatory. I've never made the effort to go full-tilt on it myself. But still, it is really intriguing. So If anyone has any reports o CFS patients who have tried it, please send them my way.
Perhaps I should add here that I wholly agree with Gerson that all produce to be juiced needs to be organic, since concentrated chemicals are the last thing we need. The "Fat Sick and Nearly Dead" people only suggest organic but don't say it's mandatory, but they are mostly targeting people whose problems stem from crappy diets and whose detox mechanisms are basically intact. Gerson deals with much sicker patients (such as cancer) and thus is much more focused on the downsides of what modern chemicals can do.
But there are a lot of other reasons that people cannot detox other than lack of nutrients or enzymes. So if there are other problems that haven't been addressed, the juice may not make much of a difference. Juicing also can be hard on the system, due to the various "anti-nutrients" in some produce (these generally become less problematic when foods are cooked) and the high amounts of sugar.
Some produce is quite detoxifying but only can be helpful if used in the right way, since it isn't enough by itself to get the toxins out of the system unless everything else is in place. One of the most temporarily disastrous things I've done for my health was to try a cilantro juice enema (and this was only a year ago, long after I got to "mostly well" status). I went from fully functional to basically bedridden within a couple of hours, and did not recover at all for quite a while. What I concluded was that the cilantro is very good at grabbing mercury and other metals from the tissue and bone stores, but that it does not hang onto the metals tightly enough to escort them all the way out of the body. FInally I started doing EDTA suppositories and the problem resolved almost immediately. How long it would have taken my system to dump all that loosened-up mercury without the EDTA, I don't know. But I definitely can see how even drinking cilantro juice could be catastrophic, for many people with this illness who have not resolved a lot of problems already.
When I had active CFS, I occasionally made juice and found that it felt like a good thing. I would imagine that nutritional deficiencies are problematic enough in this disease (due to digestive disturbances as well as challenges in preparing a healthy diet) that some super-concentrated produce might be really helpful. Substituting homemade vegetable broth (e.g. onions, celery, carrots, other stuff) for water was something that I felt like was equally good or maybe better, back when I was really sick.
More recently, as I've moved toward recovery, I've done phases with the juice. A lot of what I do is really intensive detox, interspersed with "building" phases where my body seems to crave as much nutrition as possible. Juice seems to be part of the building phase. I tend to do more juicing in winter (because juiceable produce such as carrots, apples, celery, etc. is more available then) and more green smoothies in summer (when I can get things like peaches and strawberries). Sometimes I go through stages of just eating cooked food. In general, I think that the body will tell you what it needs and that it's best to just listen to it.
While I've yet to meet anyone who said they got better from even mild CFS through juicing, I've encountered enough people who credit partial or even full recoveries to Gerson that I think this may be worth looking into. Gerson includes 13 glasses of mild juices (carrot, granny smith apple, mild greens, orange); 5 coffee enemas; a goodly amount of cooked vegetables; and a few supplements. I am suspicious about this because it doesn't include any protein (originally raw liver was included, now just liver shots) -- CFS sufferers seem to do better on meat, perhaps because trichothecenes act as protein synthesis inhibitors. And it really is an enormous amount of work (and a fair amount of money) to do Gerson -- having a well person to do all the food preparation is pretty much mandatory. I've never made the effort to go full-tilt on it myself. But still, it is really intriguing. So If anyone has any reports o CFS patients who have tried it, please send them my way.
Perhaps I should add here that I wholly agree with Gerson that all produce to be juiced needs to be organic, since concentrated chemicals are the last thing we need. The "Fat Sick and Nearly Dead" people only suggest organic but don't say it's mandatory, but they are mostly targeting people whose problems stem from crappy diets and whose detox mechanisms are basically intact. Gerson deals with much sicker patients (such as cancer) and thus is much more focused on the downsides of what modern chemicals can do.