Is there an article explaining M.E. is not a Fatigue illness?

[golden]

I would appreciate it if anyone could link me to it...

I think the term Chronic Fatigability is more accurate.

I understand it is classed as a Neurological illness - but i cant find bullet points to explain why.

Thank You.

 

[Allyson]

I would appreciate it if anyone could link me to it...

I think the term Chronic Fatigability is more accurate.

I understand it is classed as a Neurological illness - but i cant find bullet points to explain why.

Thank You.

Hey could you be a bit mosre specific about what you are lookng for please Golden?


Cheers

Ally

 

[golden]

Hi allyson ,

Sorry, my mushy brain.

I cant get it straight in my own head why this is not a 'fatigue condition'

I understand though that people didnt refer to my mothers cancer as a fatigue condition etc.

So i think the neurological condition causes chronic Fatiguability plus a whole host of other symptoms.

I want to steer away from the incorrect notion of 'Chronic Fatigue'...

Is that any help ? - not exactly sure what I even mean yet....

 

[Allyson]

Hi allyson ,

Sorry, my mushy brain.

I cant get it straight in my own head why this is not a 'fatigue condition'

I understand though that people didnt refer to my mothers cancer as a fatigue condition etc.

So i think the neurological condition causes chronic Fatiguability plus a whole host of other symptoms.

I want to steer away from the incorrect notion of 'Chronic Fatigue'...

Is that any help ? - not exactly sure what I even mean yet....

Hi GOlden,

this is not an article but a thread i recently started as i was thinking along the same lines as you -
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/fatigue-or-not-fatigue-that-is-the-question.23219/

if we break it down into its severla individual components i do not think it is fatigue either - something we got lumped with that consists maybe of an amalgam of symptoms such as muscle aches, joint pain, POTS, OI, insomnia, daytime sleepiness and a few other random symptoms..
.
WHo had the time to go into it? So fatigue it came to be called.

Cheers

A

 

[Allyson]

golden David Egan I forgot to throw PEM into the mix - and have not dealt with it in the thread much yet but i think that is somethig else again.

An if there is not a paper out about it it would be avery good topic for one.

Lets know what you think

Ally

 

[golden]

This was really helpful thanks . That paper was what i needed.

i would like to see an article on this too.

i have never really had insomnia either

just a messed up sleep rhythm

sleep reversal

the adrenal fatigue sleep pattern

the full moon sleep pattern

etc

thanks again !

 

[Jarod]

Leonard Jason and some others wrote an excellent paper recently that may help understand this, but I can't find it at the moment.

edti: found it

Cognitive impairments associated with CFS and POTS
Lindzi Shanks, Leonard A. Jason*, Meredyth Evans and Abigail Brown

Center for Community Research, DePaul University, Chicago, IL, USA

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...pairments-associated-with-cfs-and-pots.23283/

 

[golden]

I thought this, from Allysons paper was extremely accurate:
I do not think it can be described as a 'Fatigue condition'???

"Using 'fatigue' as a name of a disease gives it exclusive emphasis and has been the most confusing and misused criterion. No other fatiguing disease has 'Chronic Fatigue' attached to its name - eg:

Cancer/Chronic Fatigue, Multiple Sclerosis/Chronic Fatigue - except M.E./C.F.S.

Fatigue in other conditions is usually proportional to effect or duration that same or next day. The pathological low threshold of fatigability of ME described in the following criteria often occurs with minimal physical or mental exertion, and with reduced ability to undertake the same activity within the same or several days..."

Without a doubt, I have Chronic fatigability....which can be brought on by mental or physical exertion, exposure to chemicals etc. however I have a Neurological illness which means I have a whole host of symptoms.

Possibly anyway

I am not sure I fully understand your paper Jarod but the inclusion of POTS is useful ....

Dysfunctional sleeping pattern yes

disturbed sleep no...

Confused.

 

[Allyson]

I thought this, from Allysons paper was extremely accurate:
I do not think it can be described as a 'Fatigue condition'???




Without a doubt, I have Chronic fatigability....which can be brought on by mental or physical exertion, exposure to chemicals etc. however I have a Neurological illness which means I have a whole host of symptoms.

Confused.

Jarod thanks indeed for the paper - will read soon.


May i suggest Golden,, that you look at your symptoms in relation to how horizontal or vertical you have been in previous days.

For example if I spend most my time lying down - getting up only for bathroom (warm bath not shower), quick meal preparation and essentials and spend the rest of the time - eg on the laptop, watching movies- lying down rather than sitting - then all my symptom disappear apart from reflux/IBS.

SO i feel totally well - indeed quite good, mentally and physically.

(I use D- ribose though, which stops the muscle aches - they return if i stop that for 2 weeks or more.
Then if i get up an go out for several hours, I will be veery ill again the next day - even if it was just say to the doctor's or light shopping or a movie that i did - so no great exertion.

The illness will be in the form of a crash - duration of vertical time often related to degree of symptoms.

extreme heat makes it all worse and compression clothing seems to minimise symptoms somewhat.

best,

ALLY

 

[Valentijn]

For example if I spend most my time lying down - getting up only for bathroom (warm bath not shower), quick meal preparation and essentials and spend the rest of the time - eg on the laptop, watching movies- lying down rather than sitting - then all my symptom disappear apart from reflux/IBS.

SO i feel totally well - indeed quite good, mentally and physically

This is not typical for most ME patients. In ME patients, laying down relieves only OI symptoms, and PEM and other issues (swollen lymph nodes, food intolerances, etc), will remain.

The illness will be in the form of a crash - duration of vertical time often related to degree of symptoms.

An ME PEM/PENE crash might be affected by vertical time to the extend that standing up requires muscles use, but muscle use (sometimes brain use) is usually the primary factor.

 

[Allyson]

lying down for a long time -weeks not days;
IBS symtoms are relieved by low FODMPAS diet

I do not have swollen lymph nodes and a lot of PWME do not.


A

 

[Eucalypta]

If you want to know the exact answer why M.E is not a fatigue illness than I can point you to this paper in which is explained that ME is an illness historically listed by the WHO, the World Health Organization as a legitimate neurological illness.

Quote; "M.E. is classified in the current WHO International Classification of Diseases with the neurological code G.93.3. As Professor Malcolm Hooper explains:
The term Myalgic Encephalomyelitis has been included by the World Health Organisation (WHO) in their International Classification of Diseases (ICD), since 1969. The current version ICD-10 lists M.E. under G.93.3 - neurological conditions. It cannot be emphasised too strongly that this recognition emerged from meticulous clinical observation and examination."

As you can see, M.E was added in 1969, an illness that already existed and that translated means 'Inflammation of the spinal cord and brain', no fatigue is listed in its description as a biomarker or most important symptom, unlike CFS which has Fatigue as most important symptom listed. In comparion Chronic Fatigue Syndrom is an illness made up by the CDC after an outbreak in Incline Village in Nevada.
There is a short expiation of the differences here: http://www.hfme.org/thewhoandme.htm
And a longer version is also available.