Is Having Autism A Defense For Hacking?
- Thread starter markmc20001
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YES IT IS.
I have a close relative with high functioning Aspergers,(not autism)
Every sympathetic comment in this article describes him exactly. Aspergers people are unable to evaluate all the likely consequences of their actions because they think in simple black and white terms, in a very rationalistic way.
Thay are not astute, particularly about other people and their motives and also their own motives and consequences.
I was relieved to see that the US judicial system is taking this into account. It is to the credit of this system that it does.
I have a close relative with high functioning Aspergers,(not autism)
Every sympathetic comment in this article describes him exactly. Aspergers people are unable to evaluate all the likely consequences of their actions because they think in simple black and white terms, in a very rationalistic way.
Thay are not astute, particularly about other people and their motives and also their own motives and consequences.
I was relieved to see that the US judicial system is taking this into account. It is to the credit of this system that it does.
Wonko
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No, but it probably should be.
Mary Poppins
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That's a really interesting defense.
I find the original question hard to answer, as I expect that an affirmative or positive answer from me may require intimate knowledge of each specific case and accused.
Fascinating stuff, though. I'm interested to hear other people's responses.
I find the original question hard to answer, as I expect that an affirmative or positive answer from me may require intimate knowledge of each specific case and accused.
Fascinating stuff, though. I'm interested to hear other people's responses.
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Didn't realize the title was a question when I cut and pasted it. :O)
Interesting defense though. Maybe a reason for a reduced sentence.
Much of that I can relate to. Especially the "strong sense of right and wrong" part.
Watching a TV show called "Bloomberg risk takers" right now where a few of the people profiled have Aspergers or ADHD. The show suggests the disorders may affected their ability to do their jobs.
Interesting defense though. Maybe a reason for a reduced sentence.
Much of that I can relate to. Especially the "strong sense of right and wrong" part.
Watching a TV show called "Bloomberg risk takers" right now where a few of the people profiled have Aspergers or ADHD. The show suggests the disorders may affected their ability to do their jobs.
Mary Poppins
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Haha Mark, I read your first line in the post above and went 'um, have I misread a title again'? lol.
In what way does 'Bloomberg Risk Takers' infer that Aspergers or ADHD impairs peoples ability to perform work tasks? Fascinating.
In what way does 'Bloomberg Risk Takers' infer that Aspergers or ADHD impairs peoples ability to perform work tasks? Fascinating.
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Hiya Mary.
One "Risktaker" was the CEO of Jet Blue. He had an uncanny ability to simplifly problems and turn them into more efficient ways of doing business. Apparently he has ADHD and does not take medication for it because it hinders his creativity I believe they said.
The other was a hedge fund manager with aspergers who saw the real estate bubble coming. The aspergers somehow enabled him to spend long hours digging through bits of information in extremely long and boring financial documents many people do not actually read apparently (probably many here would read if they got involved). The information gleened was finally used to put together a plan to profit from the decline in prices.
(I used to spend long monotonous hours doing stuff, but I think my infections combined with the EMF's and drain bramage has made it impossible to focus anymore for so long without getting sick. However, I can verify I have plowed through long and challenging projects that most people find hard to believe one would do by herself/himself.)
The last "Risktaker" profiled was Elon Musk, the founder of Tesla electric cars. Not sure if he had a health issue or not. He sure has some "shoot for the moon" goals though. On a side note, apparently Tesla encountered some really bad SPIN from BBC news when doing a test drive in the first electric car.
Mark
One "Risktaker" was the CEO of Jet Blue. He had an uncanny ability to simplifly problems and turn them into more efficient ways of doing business. Apparently he has ADHD and does not take medication for it because it hinders his creativity I believe they said.
The other was a hedge fund manager with aspergers who saw the real estate bubble coming. The aspergers somehow enabled him to spend long hours digging through bits of information in extremely long and boring financial documents many people do not actually read apparently (probably many here would read if they got involved). The information gleened was finally used to put together a plan to profit from the decline in prices.
(I used to spend long monotonous hours doing stuff, but I think my infections combined with the EMF's and drain bramage has made it impossible to focus anymore for so long without getting sick. However, I can verify I have plowed through long and challenging projects that most people find hard to believe one would do by herself/himself.)
The last "Risktaker" profiled was Elon Musk, the founder of Tesla electric cars. Not sure if he had a health issue or not. He sure has some "shoot for the moon" goals though. On a side note, apparently Tesla encountered some really bad SPIN from BBC news when doing a test drive in the first electric car.
Mark
Mary Poppins
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Thanks Mark, that's awesome. I misunderstood - I thought the risk takers were profiling people who'd had their careers effectively drowned by symptoms of ADHD or by being on the Autism Spectrum.
How interesting. I wonder what else people are capable of? Especially in an area of cognitive functioning where there's been such despondancy and hopelessness?
How interesting. I wonder what else people are capable of? Especially in an area of cognitive functioning where there's been such despondancy and hopelessness?
Graham
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I agree wholeheartedly currer. I used to teach maths - an ideal subject for people with Asperger's as it is so tightly structured, just like IT, which is where these people are often happiest. I have taught students whose sophisticated knowledge of the way that computers work is such a total contrast to their understanding of how people and society works. They are easily capable of getting into hacking just for the intellectual challenge. They really do find the real world amazingly difficult to understand.
The difficulty is going to be that it will go the way of dyslexia, another real and serious handicap that has been hijacked by others looking for excuses.
It's really interesting for me on a personal level because I've had a form of autism since I was like four years old. But having CFIDS/ME really brought it out. And I'm a hacker. I never thought of ever using autism as an excuse for hacking, however, it enhances my ability to hack. It's the reason I have that focus. Maybe some of the self discipline and the attention to details. Coding and hacking are just my thing. That talent was always there, but I think the autism definitely enhances it and makes me better at it.
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Hey Mary Poppins. I think you are right about the people having trouble with those illnesses. I think the BLoomberg show I mentioned was probably propaganda. CEOS and hedge fund mangers are not good examples of people with aspergers.
Interesting about the structured environment Graham. I can see why that is comforting with the social situation aspect. It is difficult and stressful adjusting to new people with aspergers.We are often mis-interpreted too. So in a normal environment where one has to meet new people and interact all the time is frustrating and stressful. This can lead to crashing.
On the other hand, I totally dislike my work being structured. I think I would be happier if my work were more structured. Not having the stress and energy drain. However, at the same time,I find myself mentally unchallenged with structured work. I get really bored really fast if there is not a new challenge. On one hand I'm super perceptive and creative, on the other hand I get dragged down with all the people issues. The totally opposing views pulls me in opposing directions.
I don't know if it is related to aspergers, but when working I had this unique ability to think out of the box(I'm now too sick/tired when brain storming) I know this because I used to work in research and development with many bright and exceptional people. I have an extremely unique ability to "think outside" of the box. I can look at a problem where everybody had been using the similar approaches for years, and come up with a totalyl unexpected solution. My managers had noticed, and co-workers too. I've had to just keep creating, and I think it's possible part of that could be related to the aspergers but have no way of knowing.
My co-workers found it akward though. They had no idea what to do with me because me creative ablities were way over my people skills needed to do the others parts of the job that came with the high profile stuff I should be working on. The result was I was often put on projects that were well below my ability.
Interesting about the structured environment Graham. I can see why that is comforting with the social situation aspect. It is difficult and stressful adjusting to new people with aspergers.We are often mis-interpreted too. So in a normal environment where one has to meet new people and interact all the time is frustrating and stressful. This can lead to crashing.
On the other hand, I totally dislike my work being structured. I think I would be happier if my work were more structured. Not having the stress and energy drain. However, at the same time,I find myself mentally unchallenged with structured work. I get really bored really fast if there is not a new challenge. On one hand I'm super perceptive and creative, on the other hand I get dragged down with all the people issues. The totally opposing views pulls me in opposing directions.
I don't know if it is related to aspergers, but when working I had this unique ability to think out of the box(I'm now too sick/tired when brain storming) I know this because I used to work in research and development with many bright and exceptional people. I have an extremely unique ability to "think outside" of the box. I can look at a problem where everybody had been using the similar approaches for years, and come up with a totalyl unexpected solution. My managers had noticed, and co-workers too. I've had to just keep creating, and I think it's possible part of that could be related to the aspergers but have no way of knowing.
My co-workers found it akward though. They had no idea what to do with me because me creative ablities were way over my people skills needed to do the others parts of the job that came with the high profile stuff I should be working on. The result was I was often put on projects that were well below my ability.
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Your a hacker/programmer eah? Cool. Wish I got in to programming. My computer cassette recorder wouldn't record the code I wrote when younger and I lost interest. I have a knack for it, but never developed it completely.
You think the CFS brought it out? that's wild. Just being able to focus on one thing and be obessed with it? I find it harder to focus on details as I have gotten sicker.
Graham
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Hi Markmc
I know exactly what you mean. I got on pretty well with a couple of my students that had Aspergers, and, like you, they were able to come up with some really fresh ideas and to see things that challenged me (which I really enjoyed). If you look back through the great thinkers and scientists over history, it is reassuring to see just how many of them had some sort of "difference", whether it was physical or mental. I often think that it is that sort of challenge that enables or encourages fresh outlooks.
I spent some time in industry in the late 70s as a teacher/industry liaison bod, and came across lots of examples of gifted IT staff having troubles communicating with engineers, despite both being scientific in nature. I was almost tempted to change careers and try my hand as an intermediary.
One thing that has struck me though is the high proportion of people with ME/CFS who have someone on the autistic/Asperger's spectrum in their family. It seem from my experience to be very much higher than the norm.
I know exactly what you mean. I got on pretty well with a couple of my students that had Aspergers, and, like you, they were able to come up with some really fresh ideas and to see things that challenged me (which I really enjoyed). If you look back through the great thinkers and scientists over history, it is reassuring to see just how many of them had some sort of "difference", whether it was physical or mental. I often think that it is that sort of challenge that enables or encourages fresh outlooks.
I spent some time in industry in the late 70s as a teacher/industry liaison bod, and came across lots of examples of gifted IT staff having troubles communicating with engineers, despite both being scientific in nature. I was almost tempted to change careers and try my hand as an intermediary.
One thing that has struck me though is the high proportion of people with ME/CFS who have someone on the autistic/Asperger's spectrum in their family. It seem from my experience to be very much higher than the norm.
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Hi Graham.
Good point about encouraing fresh outlooks.
That a great idea about becoming an intermediary. Seems like there is defintely a need for that considering how many kids have problems coming down the pipeline.
Good point about the ME and Apsergers. I probably could have both diagnosis. Interesting thing I feel my family all has been affected with similar health issues, but just have different problems. My mom has the pain and stomach issues. Dad has hearing, fatigue, vision, sinus congestion, brain problems, and more. Brother has CFS and bi-polar. Everybody has been pretty much dysfunctional for years. I think my mom had problems back the mid 60's before I was born.
Markmc