Infected wound - don't want to use antibiotics

[Thinktank]

2 weeks ago i cut my finger at work, the small cut didn't heal and has become infected. It's quite painful and i believe the lymphatic system got infected too. There's now a red streak on my arm and the lymph node in my armpit is tender.

I really dread having to take a broad spectrum antibiotic for this problem because it will 100% cause my IBD to flare up, if that happens i will become bedridden again for many months. I absolutely don't want to lose the gains which i have made over the past months, i'm now able to work full time after having been bedridden for so many years. I worked too hard to lose it all again.

I prefer to have it cultured to see which bacteria is causing the infection but my family doctor probably won't agree with that. I'm not even sure if i can contact my family doctor because of the whole corona debacle.

I found a list of broad spectrum herbs and alternative ways to clean a wound but i'd also like to hear your experiences.
Has anyone on the forum ever healed a skin / lymph infection without conventional antibiotics?

Thanks

 

[Hip]

Have you considered taking a good probiotic and prebiotic at the same time as your antibiotic? Possibly that might mitigate the ill effects on the gut.

70% alcohol, iodine or povidone-iodine are good ways of disinfecting the wound itself.


Another possibility might be transdermal application of the antibiotic, though this would be experimental. This would avoid having the antibiotic in your gut.

Looking at the molecular weight of the common antibiotic doxycycline, it's 444 daltons, and any molecule under 500 daltons is usually capable of being absorbed on the skin.

So you could consider crushing down some doxycycline tablets into a fine powder, and applying that powder to a large area of your skin (eg across your thighs), adding a few drops of water to help absorption.

This paper suggests that doxycycline is well absorbed through the skin. The study also says that Miglyol 840 may help the doxycycline absorb. Miglyol 840 is also called capric acid, which is found in coconut oil. So you could use a bit of coconut oil to aid absorption.

 

[PatJ]

Here are a couple of things to consider:

Cayenne, garlic, golden seal and vitamin C
From: http://cayennepepper.info/cayenne-pepper-and-vitamin-c.html
I learned this from Dr. John Heinerman in his booklet The Health Benefits of Cayenne (1997).

His research revealed that vitamin C works much better with cayenne in that it stays in the body twice as long. Remember, vitamin C is a very powerful and necessary antioxidant to humans so this synergy is not that unbelievable.

He recommends taking 1,000 mg of vitamin C to the equivalent of one capsule of cayenne pepper, which is about 1/8th to 1/4th of a teaspoon maximum in size, comparatively speaking.

He finishes his comments regarding the power of cayenne and vitamin C together saying, "The very best combination I know, even more potent than synthetic antibiotics for clearing up infections of any kind, are garlic, goldenseal, cayene pepper and vitamin C!" (ibid.)


Colloidal silver
From otherworldly on PR:
Quick, cheap & no MD needed solution from a former bacteriologist (me) who doesn't use pharmaceuticals. When i was still working, i tested various natural antibiotics on my own time in the lab: colloidal silver kills just about anything u throw at it (even MRSA).

I have been treating my own infections over 20 yrs w/cfs w/100% success rate 4 all known (as in, ones i can feel, no labwork needed) infections. if u can get a nebulizer & add the silver 2 it even better, but if not just the colloidal silver should work just fine. It's very safe. I use it all the time, about 1/2 doz x per yr. kills my sinus infections & any GI infections including food poisoning. Its like magic. I’ve never used anything better. Research it if u like. U may herx a bit, but others wise no GI upset & other side affects that come w/drugs.

 

[geraldt52]

You really don't want to ignore an infected wound. I've found topical antibiotics, available without prescription, to be pretty effective. I don't think they would affect the gut, or only mildly if at all.

 

[Lisa108]

and i believe the lymphatic system got infected too. There's now a red streak on my arm and the lymph node in my armpit is tender.

Go see a doctor, please.

ETA: "see" like in "give your doc a (video)call". I don't feel it's safe for us to give medical advice on this; nor is this a "good" time to have a minor medical situation to deteriorate (if there ever is).

 

[Wolfcub]

It's a terrific risk, treating a spreading infection on your own at home. I can fully understand why you want to! Especially at this time. But once the infection has spread out of the wound into the body itself, you have a major and possibly dangerous challenge.

I once had a spreading infection, was beginning to feel ill in myself, and used a strong Echinacea Angustifolia tincture taken every 2 -4 hours, and backed that up with high dose vitamin C, and raw garlic cloves, (4 a day) In 3 days I was fine.
But...I was in my 30s then, and fit healthy and strong....

Also that combination in such high doses could well upset your gut anyway.

I hope you are okay soon. Take good care of yourself.

 

[junkcrap50]

You realize you are risking your arm. Like literally they could have to amputate. Also, the more time you spend avoiding antibiotics, the longer you will be on antibiotics.

It's already spread very far from the original cut. You likely have cellulitis due to the red streak. If you delay and it gets into your bones, you could spend 6+ months on antibiotics vs a week or two now.

I would collect and freeze a ton of stool samples right now when your gut is healthy, and then do a DIY fecal transplant during/after antibiotics.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Go see a doctor, please.

Yes, please see a doctor.

I recently needed antibiotics for an infected toe. My gut did get worse but is now recovering after 3 weeks. Digestive enzymes are helping a lot.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Thinktank I agree with those who have said you should see a doctor. After my permanent tendon injury from Levaquin you know I don’t say this lightly but this would be one of the rare scenarios where I think even I would take an antibiotic.

 

[Thinktank]

Thanks for your comments.

I didn't sleep much last night because the pain has spread to my arm. I called my doctor first thing in the morning, he asked me to come by asap which i did. Now i have a prescription for clarithromycin, a 10 days course.
The guidelines show a penicilline class antibiotic as first choice for such an infection but my IBD doesn't fare well with penicilline. We discussed the second choice, which is clarithromycin. I have used it for extended periods to treat my "lyme disease" in the past, i found it to be one of the more gentler antibiotics.
I'm giving it a shot... It will take approx. 48 hours to feel the first effects so let's hope the infection will not spread any further.
My only concern is that i don't know if the bacteria has developed resistance to clarithromycin.

@Hip, i don't tolerate probiotics any longer. Especially lactobacilli cause PEM-like effects.
There's a tetracycline cream available (doxycycline is a tetracycline) but my doc. explained it's only suitable for superficial skin lesions.

@PatJ, high dose Vitamin C always helps my skin to heal faster, good idea.

 

[Lisa108]

Thanks for the update, @Thinktank! Wishing you a speedy recovery (and may your gut tolerate the meds well)!

 

[valentinelynx]

Regarding probiotics, I've found Florastor (Saccharomyces boulardii CNCM I-745) in particular to be very helpful when I need to take systemic antibiotics (but I don't have inflammatory bowel disease). It's actually a yeast, not bacterial, so perhaps you'll tolerate it better. I believe it's pretty well tolerated in most people. I've purchased it from Amazon. It's a bit pricey, but worth it for preventing C diff and such.

I just found an interesting article about research on Saccharomyces boulardii showing that it probably works by producing a lot of acetic acid (think vinegar). Intriguing.

 

[andyguitar]

My only concern is that i don't know if the bacteria has developed resistance to clarithromycin.

It's unlikley @Thinktank

 

[Wolfcub]

We discussed the second choice, which is clarithromycin. I have used it for extended periods to treat my "lyme disease" in the past, i found it to be one of the more gentler antibiotics.
I'm giving it a shot... It will take approx. 48 hours to feel the first effects so let's hope the infection will not spread any further.

Wishing you the very best, to beat this.
I think you did the best and wisest thing, getting that antibiotic. Normally I too like to avoid them but these are extreme circumstances.
I hope you do well on it. In my opinion, it is worth doing this !!

 

[Thinktank]

2 doses later of 500mg clarithromcin and my gut is already hurting, i woke up last night with a stabbing pain and i'm already having diarrhea.
I feel an IBD flare coming up, this happened to me before.

I really can't afford it to become bedridden again, psychologically and financially, so i was thinking, why not try an IV antibiotic like ceftriaxone? It can be used for skin infections, it doesn't affect the microbiome in the gut as much and i've been on it in the past for 6 months to treat my "lyme disease" without much side effects.

Quack-Dr. Kenny de Meirleir prescribed ceftriaxon to me in the past and he always told me ceftriaxon has no impact on the gut microbiome. Because he's been spitting out so much BS i thought let's check if that's really the case before i ask my GP for IV ceftriaxon.

Lo and behold, IV ceftriaxon has a serious impact on the gut microbiome because it's processed by the liver and excreted through bile as an active antibiotic into the intestines. It has very broad-spectrum activity against gram positive and gram negative bacteria, anaerobic and aerobic.

https://www.oatext.com/ribaxamase-a...iome-in-patients-treated-with-ceftriaxone.php

Antibiotics are a major cause of gut microbiome disruption, and broad-spectrum antimicrobials are strongly associated with an increased risk for CDI [6-8] including clindamycin, fluoroquinolones and β-lactam antibiotics (penicillins, cephalosporins and carbapenems) [2,6,9-12]. All intravenous (IV) β-lactam antibiotics are at least partially processed in the liver and excreted through the bile into the intestine as active antimicrobials [13]. Biliary excretion of β-lactams can range from a small percentage of the input dose to up to 40% for antibiotics like ceftriaxone [13], resulting in high intestinal concentrations of up to 1 mg/ml [14]. β-lactams are the most commonly used broad spectrum antibiotics and are especially harmful to the commensal organisms of the gut microbiome, particularly the beneficial anaerobes that play a role in colonization resistance [9].

 

[Lisa108]

2 doses later of 500mg clarithromcin and my gut is already hurting, i woke up last night with a stabbing pain and i'm already having diarrhea.

Ah, dang! Sorry to hear this.

You said you couldn't tolerate probiotics, is this also the case for things like Mutaflor or Symbioflor 2 (both containing strains of E. coli)?

Then there is a yeast that @valentinelynx already mentioned, Saccharomyces boulardii.

Binders like indian fleaseed husks or healing earths, zeolites, etc.?

Glutamine(-peptides)?

Resistant starch (like potatoe starch)?

Hope you'll feel better, soon!

 

[Hip]

There's a tetracycline cream available (doxycycline is a tetracycline) but my doc. explained it's only suitable for superficial skin lesions.

According to the paper, if I understand it correctly, the skin absorption of doxycycline is around 0.03 mg per cm2 per hour.

So with an area of skin say 30 cm by 30 cm, which will have an area of 900 square cm, this area will absorb 27 mg of doxycycline in an hour, and 108 mg in 4 hours.

 

[Thinktank]

The infection has finally healed but as suspected the use of the antibiotic caused a major setback.
I'm now unable to work a full day. My muscles feel incredibly fatigued, i can't focus on anything and my IBD is smoldering. Everytime i endure a setback like this is takes a much LONGER time to recover to a certain baseline, and everytime i'm left with new symptoms.
Because of the coronacrisis i have also lost my job. Way to go 2020.... a year to quickly forget.