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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

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56
Badpack, I wrote a more complete explanation , thread title -'' cancer metabolism, gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell '' .

This mechanism is happening is muscle, brain, muscle and heart , its a cycle of increased oxidative stress , upregulated antioxidant system , altered gene and enzyme expression involved in glycolysis, antioxidant system and mitochondrial energy production. What started out as a defense to oxidative actually establishes a cycle of oxidative stress, because the expression levels of genes and enzymes has been altered to so much that it actually causes a increase in oxidative stress . The altered genes and enzyme expression increases the antioxidant defense and alters the energy production pathways, and the altered genes and enzyme expression also results in a higher level of oxidative stress. So the cfs patient is in a cycle of increased oxidative stress, upregulated antioxidant system and altered energy production pathways.

This is the same cycle is occurring in cancer cells , oxidative stress has been shown to be higher in cancer, and even trigger or initiate cancer. But i'm not suggesting cfs people are going to get cancer, at least not from this mechanism.
 
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Badpack i'd like you to read my other thread ,title '' cancer metabolism gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell''.

This mechanism is happening in brain , heart and skeletal muscle of cfs patients, I just said skeletal muscle to keep it simple.
 

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,320
Wouldn't this hypothesis imply ME/CFS would be treatable with something that reduces the oxidative stress?

There have been lots of ideas around oxidative stress in the past, Martin Pall for example developed the nitric oxide cycle theory (NO/ONOO-cycle) over a decade ago (read more here). I remember reading that Pall went into remission after a high-dosage protocol of various antioxidants and nitric oxide scavengers.

Antioxidants and peroxynitrite scavengers don't work at all for my symptoms though. They provoke an increase in flu-like symptoms within a couple of days and end up making the fatigue even worse in the long run. High-dose vitamin C works particularly badly, it somehow makes my inflammatory symptoms worse (I suspect it doesn't act as an antioxidant in my case). The only thing that slightly helps me from Pall's list of therapies are NMDA antagonists like magnesium.
 
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56
JES i'd like you to read my other thread titled - cancer metabolism gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell. Gives a more complete explanation of this mechanism
 

Badpack

Senior Member
Messages
382
This could be of real importance tbh.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ijc.32756

They used Benserazide, an L-DOPA-decarboxylase inhibitor and reduced PKM2 and activated OXPHOS. Benserazide could be a real winner! Now i am exited haha...

Benserazide is rarely used alone. Not sure if it would help with the brain symptoms because it cant pass the blood brain barrier. But it should be really safe to try it because it shouldnt do much if you dont need it.

Question is if ppl with Cfs already tried L-Depo which is combined with Benserazide. Could be a starting point to find out if ppl with Cfs and Parkinson exist and if they find improvement also for the Cfs part from taking their Dopa/Benserazide.
 
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Badpack

Senior Member
Messages
382
Here is a list of possible PKM2 Inhibitors. Bought some Lapachol. Lets see what happens.

Bildschirmfoto 2021-01-05 um 00.38.31.png
Bildschirmfoto 2021-01-05 um 00.38.44.png
 
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Badpack I would strongly advice against trying anything at this time, could be dangerous , lets look into things a little more , before anyone of us tries anything , and have some discussions as well . I know you're anxious to try things , and we will try them , but we need to look at these things further and discuss them with each other.
 

Badpack

Senior Member
Messages
382
Thanks for your compassion but im sick for 6 years lying in my damn bed. Im over waiting and talking ^^ at this speed nothing gets accomplished ever.

Btw. found this nice illustration. I think this is what you wanted to tell us ?

Figure 36.1.jpg