how immune dysfunction and joints and movement correlate, a article

[linusbert]

now i thought until now i did read and hear it all.
how joints interconnect and move and physical movement of immune cells has a direct impact on immune function.
cells seam to generate energy depending on physical movement.
this is wild, like one wild take away is that mice could reduce breast cancer volume by ~50% by stretching.
https://chrismasterjohnphd.substack.com/p/the-biomechanics-of-immune-dysfunction

guess what, i am introducing now stretching routines... who would have thought that.

 

[BrightCandle]

It might explain why some people recover from exercise, but if you are deep enough in you do more mitochondria damage and get worse and especially if powering the immune cells doesn't clear the infection. Its an interesting idea I am not sure its worth risking PEM and worsening for however given so much exercise is counter indicated in the disease and this isn't a study about ME/CFS and the mechanisms showing effectiveness just some theory crafting pulling a bunch of things together.

 

[linusbert]

i am pretty sure PEM defeats all pros of stretching.
but according to the article its not only stretching, its also water balance, electrolytes etc.

 

[Hufsamor]

I guess the takeaway is to move as much as you can. Not so much that we provoke PEM, but a little bit according to our own limit.
My doctor once told me to swirl my hands and feet every day. Lots of rather sick me patients enjoy careful stretching. If ten minutes are too much, a little bit is better than nothing.
It’s a very interesting article. Thanks @linusbert

 

[LINE]

He certainly offers a unique perspective. Stretching can be strenuous, but I do small amounts multiple times per day. Traditional Chinese medicine shows how "stagnation" prevents Qi energy from flowing.

 

[Wishful]

I think there's a big difference between the movement at cellular level and body-level movement. I'd want input about that theory from an expert in mechanics at that microscopic level before getting too excited about the proposed benefits of stretching exercises.

The discovery that mechanical forces rather than chemical bonds are responsible for t-cell activation will more likely make a difference in understanding the immune system and possible treatments.

 

[linusbert]

i dont think there is a body level movement without movement on cellular level.
i once before i got my first crash i was in a downward spiral, muscles getting worse and i did kung fu with my girl, and they had those kata like thing, called sim nim tau. i did this a lot and somehow i got a break from declining and muscles got better. but i did stop that because people were smoking all the time and i lost interest.
it was this:

 

[Wishful]

i dont think there is a body level movement without movement on cellular level.

Obviously not, since body-scale movements involve nanoscopic molecules running up microtubules, and tiny vesicles moving around. Body-scale movements don't necessarily affect t-cell binding to other cells to a significant degree. Bulldozing some soil doesn't necessarily make a difference to a specific cell somewhere in that soil. Also, the time scales are different. You might spend a minute stretching a muscle, but in that time frame, t-cells might be doing the equivalent of crisscrossing the continent, interacting with millions of cells, so to them your body movement is like continental drift.

As I said, I'd want an expert in cell activity on those scales to comment on the theory. We non-experts are terrible at judging scales beyond our normal lives, and probabilities of events occurring.