how does LPS get processed in the body?

[ebethc]

does anyone know the pathways for LPS in the body? If I knew, maybe I could find a way to help my body get it out, like saunas or something. thanks.

 

[Learner1]

I looked it up as I was curious. They seem to be eliminated through the liver. Apparently IVIG and monoclonal antibodies can help, too.

How do you know if you have an issue with them?

 

[ebethc]

if you have leaky gut, you have LPS in the bloodstream, correct? Is there a serum LPS test?

 

[Learner1]

if you have leaky gut, you have LPS in the bloodstream, correct?

That's my understanding.

Is there a serum LPS test?

The ones I could find were for LPS antibodies. You can look at Cyrex Labs Array 2.

This also has some explanation...

https://drmeaghandishman.com/lab-testing-for-leaky-gut-intestinal-permeability/

 

[Thinktank]

CD14 can be tested in blood. CD14 binds to LPS, so an increase in CD14 might indicate a hyperpermeable intestinal lining.

 

[Learner1]

I was just listening to an interview with Dr. Bernarda Zenker. She dug into effects of LPS and found they can:

1) unregulate IL6 and TNFalpha
2) promote cytokine storms
3) inhibit methylation

 

[ebethc]

I was just listening to an interview with Dr. Bernarda Zenker. She dug into effects of LPS and found they can:

1) unregulate IL6 and TNFalpha
2) promote cytokine storms
3) inhibit methylation

makes sense to me...

did she have any suggestions for helping your body process it out..? I believe it's metabolized by the liver, which means that it would go back into your gut... I was thinking of getting back into the sauna and trying that route to take the burden off my liver detox pathways..

cc @ljimbo423

 

[Lalia]

makes sense to me...

did she have any suggestions for helping your body process it out..? I believe it's metabolized by the liver, which means that it would go back into your gut... I was thinking of getting back into the sauna and trying that route to take the burden off my liver detox pathways..

cc @ljimbo423

Hi @ebethc - wondering how you’re going with the quest to deal with LPS? Did you find out how to help excrete them from the body? Thanks!

 

[ebethc]

Hi @ebethc - wondering how you’re going with the quest to deal with LPS? Did you find out how to help excrete them from the body? Thanks!

nope - I wish I knew! Maybe sauna? I haven't seen any study, though...

 

[Lalia]

I find sweating it out each night in a hot bath to be really helpful, thinking of moving up to FiR soon.

Have you ever tried the supplement Basica? http://www.basica.info/products/basica-vital/

It's supposed to alkalise the body (which I think helps with LPS but I don't have a reference) - it gives me fantastic energy but slows my motility right down. I think the motility issue may be because I have issues with heavy metals though.

 

[ebethc]

I find sweating it out each night in a hot bath to be really helpful, thinking of moving up to FiR soon.

do you put anything in the bath, like baking soda or epsom salts?

 

[Lalia]

I don't - I recently had a bad reaction to NAC, so I'm staying away from sulfur foods and supplements like epsom salts for the moment.

I hadn't thought about baking soda, I wonder if that would give me the energy minus the digestive issues...? Good suggestion, I'll have to give it a try!

 

[ljimbo423]

I recently had a bad reaction to NAC, so I'm staying away from sulfur foods and supplements like epsom salts for the moment.

Another reason the NAC could have caused such a bad reaction is because it's a precursor to glutathione. Glutathione is an extremely important antioxidant in the body but also a VERY powerful detoxifier.

When I first started taking NAC I couldn't take more than 25-50mg at a time, the detox reactions were so strong.

Very small doses of glutathione, like 5 mg sublingually, will make me so sick, I end up in bed for several hours to a day.

Jim

 

[ljimbo423]

There is a lipase called acyloxyacyl hydrolase in the liver that detoxifies LPS through a process called deacylation.

There is also an enzyme in the gut called alkaline phosphatase that detoxifies LPS.....

Clearance
The liver is the main organ responsible for LPS clearance from the blood. Most systemic LPS is taken up by Kupffer cells in the liver where they are neutralized and then excreted in the bile [R].

An enzyme in the gut called alkaline phosphatase can remove phosphate groups from LPS, which reduces its inflammatory effects. If enzyme levels are low, less LPS is broken down and circulating LPS levels are increased [R].

LINK

Much of the inflammatory response of the body to blood-borne Gram-negative bacteria occurs in the liver and spleen, the major organs that remove these bacteria and their lipopolysaccharide (LPS, endotoxin) from the bloodstream.

We show here that LPS undergoes deacylation in the liver and spleen by acyloxyacyl hydrolase (AOAH), an endogenous lipase that selectively removes the secondary fatty acyl chains that are required for LPS recognition by its mammalian signaling receptor,
MD-2-TLR

LINK

I couldn't find any supplements to specifically increase either one of these things.

I think the best things to do would be to support overall liver function/detoxification and re-balance the gut microbiome to allow any increase in intestinal permeability to heal.

That will dramatically lower the amount of LPS getting into the bloodstream.

Jim

 

[Lalia]

When I first started taking NAC I couldn't take more than 25-50mg at a time, the detox reactions were so strong

Hey Jim, that’s so interesting that you had to start at such low doses, what detox symptoms did you have? Have you worked up to a bigger dose now?

I started at around 100 grams/ day. My digestion improved markedly on the NAC (BMs/ reflux). But it made me feel suicidal, gave me pain in my left jaw/ arm, crashed my energy and gave me nausea and air hunger. If it was just the energy crash, I’d put it down to detox, but the mood changes and left-sided pain make me think of mercury (especially because I eat a lot of fish). Am going to do a heavy metals test now so I know for sure. Given the changes in my digestion, it’s obvious I need to get the cysteine/ sulfur/ glutathione somehow.

@ljimbo423

 

[ebethc]

Very small doses of glutathione, like 5 mg sublingually, will make me so sick, I end up in bed for several hours to a day.

have you tried splitting the sublingual dose in half? I have a hard time w glutathione, too, but it's one of those things I'd like to go back to again (when I'm improving... if ever??? )

which sublingual glutathione do you use?

 

[ljimbo423]

Hey Jim, that’s so interesting that you had to start at such low doses, what detox symptoms did you have? Have you worked up to a bigger dose now?

As best as I can remember the detox symptoms I had were aches, pains, headache, fatigue, ringing in ears and just felt miserable.

I slowly worked my way up to 1,200 mg a day of NAC, which I've been taking now for a few years. I did the same with alpha lipoic acid (ALA). I very slowly worked up to 475 mg a day.

Jim

 

[ljimbo423]

have you tried splitting the sublingual dose in half? I have a hard time w glutathione, too, but it's one of those things I'd like to go back to again (when I'm improving... if ever??? )

which sublingual glutathione do you use?

I have tried lower doses of 2 mg but just felt a little less miserable.

I actually used source naturals glutathione tabs that weren't sublingual, I just used them that way. They take longer to dissolve but still work.

I would also like to try glutathione again but it will be when my oxidative stress levels/toxins are much lower so I don't get such strong detox reactions.

Jim

 

[ebethc]

I have tried lower doses of 2 mg but just felt a little less miserable.

I actually used source naturals glutathione tabs that weren't sublingual, I just used them that way. They take longer to dissolve but still work.

I would also like to try glutathione again but it will be when my oxidative stress levels/toxins are much lower so I don't get such strong detox reactions.

Jim

do you think that glutathione mobilizes toxins, and that why it's hard on us?

 

[ljimbo423]

do you think that glutathione mobilizes toxins, and that why it's hard on us?

Yes, glutathione is used in both phase 1 and phase 2 liver detoxification .

LINK

Jim