High dose thiamine

[Lena9701]

I've been interested in thiamine recently. After my most recent COVID infection I started having a lot of trouble with sugars and carbs, which I hadn't experienced before. I just threw some thiamine at it (250mg thiamine hci for five days) and it did help with the carb intolerance. After stopping the carb intolerance crept back, so I repeated the experiment with the same results (and also succeeded in depleting my phosphorus). I would be surprised if I actually had a thiamine deficiency as my diet is extremely high.

High dose thiamine long term sounds like a really bad idea to me though, as the b vitamins are so interconnected I feel like messing with that balance is dangerous. I've had some real gains from doing the GRJ/B12 oils protocol, which focuses on functional b2 deficiency and according to that protocol high dose thiamine will deplete my slim stores of b2 and worsen my issues long term.

It's always so hard to tell online because of course in the high dose thiamine groups everyone insists that this it's the cure and downplays the risks. Anecdotally I have noticed quite a few stories of people being helped initially and then losing the benefits or feeling even worse.

Interestingly in EO's thiamine group I've seen that COVID can cause people to need to double or even triple their dose to maintain the same benefits. I wish I understood this all better, as I suspect those people and I have been similarly metabolically affected by that damn virus.

Has anyone here looked into high dose thiamine or experimented with it themselves? If someone who understands these issues better than me has any insight here I would really appreciate it

 

[pamojja]

As always, start low and go slow. Meaning starting lowest possible doses, even fractions of pills or capsules, and increase the dose from there very slow and gradually over weeks, months and years, can enable one to handle all potentially worsening. I would add comprehensive lab testing to see also, especially detox improving or worsening. This way one has all the tools to immediately, or at least not too late, adjust doses if anything goes south.

Of course, especially the B-vitamins metabolism is extremely interconnected:

Therefore, if one starts low and go slow, one adds not only crumbs of thiamine, but B2, B3, B4, B5, B6, B7, B8, B9 and B12 in obvious proportions, along with co-factor minerals too. That way I reached high doses of almost all B-Vitamins, with absolutely no ill-effect. Some, like B1 up to 1.5-1.6 g/d for 2 years, simply showed no additional benefit to me either, So gradually decreased the dose again to now about 0.6 g/d again.

My proportions of B-vitamins needed for my particular biochemical individuality differing from the average population also was found this way. Always adjusting, experimenting up or down with the dose. Always monitoring, since that too will change.

I'm monitoring symptoms and lab results since starting to supplement comprehensively 15 years ago. Everything improved only, over the years. It does take consistency, patience and perseverance though.

I never had a covid infection, without any vaccine.

 

[Hip]

High dose thiamine long term sounds like a really bad idea to me though, as the b vitamins are so interconnected I feel like messing with that balance is dangerous. I've had some real gains from doing the GRJ/B12 oils protocol, which focuses on functional b2 deficiency and according to that protocol high dose thiamine will deplete my slim stores of b2 and worsen my issues long term.

If there is concern about high dose B1, then presumably Greg's extremely high dose B12 protocol would also be a concern? With the 2000 mcg of B12 that Greg estimates one pump dose of his B12 oils provide, that is well over the 2.4 mcg recommended dietary allowance for B12.

 

[bad1080]

I would be surprised if I actually had a thiamine deficiency as my diet is extremely high.

caffeine can hinder the adsorption of thiamine iirc and nicotine too (wasn't caffeine, see below)

Finally, caffeic acid, chlorogenic acid, and tannic acid in coffee, tea, and energy drinks, oxidize the thiazole ring of the thiamine molecule, impairing its absorption, while the added sugars, flavors and other substances to enhance taste, increase thiamine demand. Sixty-two percent of Americans consume an average of three cups of coffee per day [163], suggesting this popular food item may contribute more to TD than acknowledged.

from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8533683/

 

[SqueakyPScott]

If there is concern about high dose B1, then presumably Greg's extremely high dose B12 protocol would also be a concern? With the 2000 mcg of B12 that Greg estimates one pump dose of his B12 oils provide, that is well over the 2.4 mcg recommended dietary allowance for B12.

There are different forms of b1 vitamins with different bioavailibility. HCL is the least available while ttfd is the most. 100mg of ttfd is equivalent to 2000mg of HCL if I remember correctly.

 

[Lena9701]

If there is concern about high dose B1, then presumably Greg's extremely high dose B12 protocol would also be a concern? With the 2000 mcg of B12 that Greg estimates one pump dose of his B12 oils provide, that is well over the 2.4 mcg recommended dietary allowance for B12.

Tbh I don't totally understand why Greg thinks that b1 would deplete b2 but B12 wouldn't have similar negative effects. His protocol so far has significantly helped me so I am somewhat inclined to just believe it, but I would love to understand it more haha