Help! Not sure if it's pregabalin and diazepam tolerance or ME/CFS and I don't know which tests or medicines should I pursue!

Hi all,

At first, I need to apologize because the content below is the same as my introduction thread, but this board seems to have more visibility and I am in despair and making my family suffer too so I ask you to forgive me to also post this here. I need to do something. I have a positive ANA test, I don't know if I developed MCAS, or methylation issues so I don't know where to start.

First, I need to provide some context. I have been on benzos since 2018, and now I’m on my third taper attempt. But more importantly, before a very stressful episode that I am going to describe, I was doing a slow second taper of diazepam holding on 7.5 mg while also using luvox and 200 mg of pregabalin. I deal with pre-existing OCD, and by that time, I was using 1.8 g of NAC daily for months. I remember 2 days when I skipped it, and on both days, I felt very anxious. So maybe it also helped to manage the symptoms, or maybe it has its own withdrawal symptoms that I didn’t finish before the stressful episode.

Due to a diagnostic of pangastritis and esophagitis I decided to taper off the supplement and I finished maybe too quickly before the stressful episode I am going to mention (I found some wd stories of NAC on reddit and it seems that it can influence the HPA axis). Due to the diagnosis my doctor told me to cut gluten and dairy, and so I did it. I was more or less one month free from both before the episode. Also, my taper was not going fine: I was dealing with some degree of sensory overload that started on my first attempt to quit benzos (started when I reached 0.4mg of Valium after a crosstaper from Xanax) to the point that I was unable to play video games, stand in videoconferences, or play complex board games while listening to music (it was one or another). Insisting would cause of feeling of "frying brain" in my right temple that could make me disabled for a day or more. Typing on my phone too much would also cause that.

Despite all that, I was living a normal life: driving across the city, going to karaoke bars, meeting and talking with friends, doing some exercise, watching TV, reading, and listening to music with no discomfort until the episode.

About the episode: I had an appointment with an ENT and decided to use the subway to go there. Life was pretty normal to me before that. I was 3 months gluten and dairy free (so, gluteomorphin and caseomorphin withdrawal might be a possibility), and on that day, on the subway, I noticed that the noise from people talking, the train door signals, and the train at full speed was too much, I was stressed and overwhelmed, and the place was still far away, but I decided to endure it because I was concerned with something regarding my hearing; until after after 40 minutes, I decided to take the train back home and sat for another 40 minutes of all that. I was covering my ears and closing my eyes at that point. The worst part was that, cancelling the consultation and being in the subway station closest to my home, I still left my car in a parking lot nearby, so I would need to drive for 15 minutes. That was horrible. I can't even describe well the degree of anxiety and stress while in my car. I thought I would have a stroke and prayed along the way, but I was unable to reach home. I needed to call my parents to take me and my car.

After this, my vital signs dropped and didn’t get back to normal. Even 1 year and 5 months later, I haven’t fully recovered. I used to have a 120/80 BP, and now it’s 100/60 or 100/50 (I’m not talking about BP at rest). My pulse is around 58 to 61 BPM at rest, more or less.

I barely have appetite, and before that it was normal. Currently, I can't read, watch TV, listen to music, and even listening in a conversation can make me exhausted and with the "frying brain" sensation I mentioned before. I added gluten and dairy back, but it didn't help much. I even up-dosed Valium in despair. Still, it didn't help.

Now I am scared that I might have developed a permanent condition. I don't know if the drugs aren't letting me recover or if the episode of stress had a permanent damage, given that I hadn't this condition before. I feel discouraged, too tepid, and in despair.

Is there hope for me or I probably developed CFS and / or dysautonomia? It's worth saying that I am also experiencing body fatigue even with mental effort. Changing the pregabalin dose to 100 and 100 to 125 to 75 also seem to have made me worse. There aren't experts on benzos or CFS that I know where I live, so your experiences and views are welcomed. I don't know what to do now, and I don't know who to schedule an appointment here in Brazil.

All the boredom, the disability, the suffering I cause to my parents and to myself makes me have bad thoughts.

I still have 200mg of pregabalin and 12mg of diazepam to taper and I don't know it is tolerance to these meds or if it is CFS. I am almost going to a reference hospital here for a quick assisted taper like in one to three months because I am tired of having those substances in my body and dealing with tolerance. Using LDA scares me as I think my CNS is sensitive and I am scared about the possibility of akathisia.

I took NAC to type and post here so maybe I will not be able to stay active on the thread but read it. Using devices are being hard for me.

I want to have my life back, and I pray to have health again.

TIA
 

Florida Guy

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Benzo addiction is a terrible thing. It causes problems with the brain and you can't quit it cold turkey because of the seizures and other wd effects. I've heard that some people got relief from the wd's by using bpc157. Even years after quitting benzos you can still have some problems from it. I hear about people who pop a benzo every time they feel anxious and I just shake my head.

You are likely having trouble sleeping, thats one of the wd effects. But you need to be strong and beat it. Stressing over what happened is going to make you feel worse. CFS means emotion or mental effort and stress will make you feel worse and could permanently worsen you condition. Remaining calm and optimistic is your best bet. Blaming yourself for things does not help. Read the forum and learn about pacing and how to keep from pem and crashing. There are posts with advice on dealing with symptoms
 
So, do you think it's indeed CFS given what I described or there is no way to tell without quitting the drugs?

There is a reference hospital with some state of the art treatments (although I am not sure if there are benzowise doctors there) where I could detox in a few months, do you think this approach would be too reckless or dangerous? I don't want to have years of tapering those two substances given that I am already dysfunctional.
 

Florida Guy

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I'm not a doctor and even doctors can't diagnose cfs/me for sure. Your lowered bp and heart rate are what many of us experience. Sensitivity to noise and bright light is also often seen. Some of your other symptoms also sound like it could be ME

It seems the wd's from diazapam are your main concerns at the moment. If you can get into a detox program that sounds like a good move. Don't ignore what I said about pacing, it is very important if you do have our fav disease which it sounds like. Pushing to exercise or too much drama can make you worse so take it easy.
 

SlamDancin

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I was detoxed off Etizolam using phenobarbital and it worked decently but I was monitored every day for 30 days. I would definitely pursue finding a doc to do a Pheno taper. It’s obviously got some potential problems but doing a non barbiturate taper off benzos is probably more dangerous. I would say you should try to avoid wd’s as much as possible because benzo withdrawal can definitely make preexisting cfs worse. Best of luck man
 

Wayne

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I was dealing with some degree of sensory overload ... Despite all that, I was living a normal life: driving across the city, going to karaoke bars, meeting and talking with friends, doing some exercise, watching TV, reading, and listening to music with no discomfort until the episode... About the episode:

Hi @fullofdetermination -- I like your username, but I'm sorry to hear about how difficult your sensory overload issues are for you. I feel I can relate, because sensory overload is my primary issue at this time. I also feel I can relate to your benzo withdrawal issues, as I tapered off clonazepam about 20 years ago.

In my situation, I've had sensory overload issues for many years. But they worsened significantly a few weeks ago. It all started with a series of "startles", which cumulatively, feels like they left me in a similar situation to how you felt (and feel) after your own episode.

In my case, I've lived with my sensory overload issues for many years, and have learned a number of techniques to control it fairly well. Since my "startles" however, it's become much more difficult. However, they still do work, and thankfully give me enough support to be able to "manage" things (at this time anyway).

I've written a fair amount about some of the things I do that help me so much, which are mostly pretty unorthodox. By that I mean I do techniques that have to do with balancing and harmonizing energy flows in the body. This includes stimulating the vagus nerve, spiritual techniques (see my signature for a link), eating one meal a day, castor oil packs, self-acupuncture, and much more.

A major thing I do almost daily is Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (mHBOT). I can always depend on it to bring a deep sense of calm to my body, mind, and psyche. I've long felt my own benzodiazapine tapering and withdrawal would have been significantly easier if I'd had mHBOT at the time. mHBOT units can be rented by the month in some places in the U.S.

If any of this interests you, you can do a search on this forum for some of the posts I've made that includes the words I mentioned above. And if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them for you. Oh, and BTW, of course there's hope for you. Most human beings are remarkably resilient, and if we can find a way to remain calm, we can usually come up with various solutions that can at least improve things from where we're at now. So I encourage you to do your best to stay positive as you move forward.

All the Best!
 
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heapsreal

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It's a hard call. You would think that going back to a higher dose would reduce some symptoms if it's tolerance/withdrawal issues.

The only way to know is to do a longer slower taper, is it worth it, is the really tough question and being very sure it's related to benzo's I guess.

Your symptoms could be cfsme related too. I don't think you will get a black and white answer.

Did your cfs start after an infection or some other initial trigger/cause??
What sort of doses of xanax did you get up too?? Did you find it just stopped helping you?

Good luck 🤞
 
Did your cfs start after an infection or some other initial trigger/cause??
It started with the mentioned episode of stress. It was normal Xanax, it's not a street thing where I live. Do you think a detox facility would be a bad idea in a reference hospital?

I had COVID but it only lasted for 3 days or so, I was on Luvox, NAC and NAD+. But I got very bad after the subway/car episode.
 
Oh, and BTW, of course there's hope for you.
I want to read, watch TV, talk and be able to work with data science again. I want my life back. I am only surviving and I thought this board was more positive with full recovery stories when I read about it on Reddit but the impression that stays is that all I can do is to mitigate the symptoms with no permanent improvement in the quality or life. I am tired of not having any pleasure, making my family suffer and tired of being tired. I am having suicidal thoughts unfortunately. Severe mental symptoms can lead to a miserable life.
 
I was detoxed off Etizolam using phenobarbital and it worked decently but I was monitored every day for 30 days. I would definitely pursue finding a doc to do a Pheno taper. It’s obviously got some potential problems but doing a non barbiturate taper off benzos is probably more dangerous. I would say you should try to avoid wd’s as much as possible because benzo withdrawal can definitely make preexisting cfs worse. Best of luck man
Interesting. But did you got free from all substances? Reading the benzodiazepine international coalition site I got scared with delayed withdrawal. Do you think that all the symptoms could disapear stopping pregabalin and diazepam? I am in the equivalent dose of 36mg of diazepam due to Luvox interaction I guess.
 
I'm not a doctor and even doctors can't diagnose cfs/me for sure. Your lowered bp and heart rate are what many of us experience. Sensitivity to noise and bright light is also often seen. Some of your other symptoms also sound like it could be ME

It seems the wd's from diazapam are your main concerns at the moment. If you can get into a detox program that sounds like a good move. Don't ignore what I said about pacing, it is very important if you do have our fav disease which it sounds like. Pushing to exercise or too much drama can make you worse so take it easy.
About the BP, isn't worth to take some remedy to increase it? Natural bright light is not a problem for me but only from devices. Does this say anything? Also, I have 91 (forgot the unit) of T3, I am not sure if this is hypothyroidism or bad conversion from T4 to T3 due to the benzodiazepines or pregabalin.

I will try to pace decently and this involves stopping using the celphone as even minutes can lead myself to a feeling of frying brain.

I have hopes on the keto diet because: a PET-CT shown that I have evidence for cerebral insulin resistance; it reduces glutamate and inflammation; I am overweight and this circulation might do the trick if I lose weight; I have the genotype for CaV 1.2 dysfunction; with the insulin resistance, changing the fuel might help; It increases endogenous GABA.
 
I'm not a doctor and even doctors can't diagnose cfs/me for sure. Your lowered bp and heart rate are what many of us experience. Sensitivity to noise and bright light is also often seen. Some of your other symptoms also sound like it could be ME

It seems the wd's from diazapam are your main concerns at the moment. If you can get into a detox program that sounds like a good move. Don't ignore what I said about pacing, it is very important if you do have our fav disease which it sounds like. Pushing to exercise or too much drama can make you worse so take it easy.
But can't the detox cause stress and the stress cause damage or is temporary?
 
I was detoxed off Etizolam using phenobarbital and it worked decently but I was monitored every day for 30 days. I would definitely pursue finding a doc to do a Pheno taper. It’s obviously got some potential problems but doing a non barbiturate taper off benzos is probably more dangerous. I would say you should try to avoid wd’s as much as possible because benzo withdrawal can definitely make preexisting cfs worse. Best of luck man
Which dose were you on and for how long did you use benzos? I am also worried because I am on pregabalin too.
 

Wayne

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Do you think that all the symptoms could disapear stopping pregabalin and diazepam?
I think it's very possible that could be the case, perhaps even likely. Are you familiar with benzobuddies? It's a forum that's been around for 20 years and has an enormous amount of information regarding withdrawing from benzos. I've read many stories of people there who were beyond despair, but were eventually able to overcome their debilitating withdrawal symptoms. -- Best...
 
I think it's very possible that could be the case, perhaps even likely. Are you familiar with benzobuddies? It's a forum that's been around for 20 years and has an enormous amount of information regarding withdrawing from benzos. I've read many stories of people there who were beyond despair, but were eventually able to overcome their debilitating withdrawal symptoms. -- Best...
I am a member there with the same username I use here. Do you think benzos caused your CFS somehow? For how long did you use and which dose?

I don't know if many others in my case would have the willpower to fight given how miserable I am now and the taperings or detox that I still need to do (or maybe I should give up on the quitting the drugs).
 

Mary

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@fullofdetermination - I took lorazepam for 11 years, middle of the night for sleep. I started at 0.5 mg and then went up to 1 mg. and stayed at that dose until I realized it no longer was helping and I needed to get off of it. It took me 8 months, tapering very slowly, to get off of it. And my sleep was pretty bad but I did it. I found that niacin can help, niacinamide can also help with the withdrawal. Vitamin C also helps with neurotoxicity. Taurine can also help with neurotoxicity.

You mentioned you have an option to go to a hospital which could help you detox. It might be good to pursue that because from what I can tell, you're on a pretty high dose of a benzo, as well as your other drugs. It's complicated and we can't answer all your questions here.

Also, the phenobarbital assisted taper might be a good thing to do. My sister, who is a drug and alcohol counselor, said that withdrawal from phenobarbital does not have the potential for seizures that benzo withdrawals can have.

So I suggest you talk to the doctors at that hospital, explain all about your situation and drugs you are on and ask about phenobarbital.

As to whether or not you have ME/CFS, it's hard to tell with all you have going on. It's possible you might not be able to tell until you do get off those drugs.
 

JES

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Benzos can lower blood pressure. Certain people with ME/CFS have reported they feel better with benzos like Ativan, but even then tolerance develops and I don't think even in their situation it's advisable to take them continuously. Interestingly, some people with ME/CFS also report feeling better with pregabalin.

I would try to taper off benzos first and then consider what to do with pregabalin as it's probably the less problematic one to take long-term.
 

SlamDancin

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@fullofdetermination I was on a pretty decent dose of Etizolam for at least 2-3 years and was forced to quit at a rehab facility. I wasn’t taking as much as some people there who also were given Phenobarbital successfully. Like @Mary said it’s both safer with respect to wd’s and it’s also much less addictive. I was given Pheno for about 3 weeks, tapered down, and did not have any seizures. It still sucks mentally but in my opinion you can’t be dependent on benzos and recover from Cfs. With respect to Lyrica I would worry about benzos first. I take Gabapentin everyday and have been able to recover, although not fully yet, from Cfs with a ton of physical therapy, which might not be applicable to you but I have gone 4 years now without benzos. If I can do it you can do it
 

Florida Guy

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But can't the detox cause stress and the stress cause damage or is temporary?
A harsh detox could cause a problem yes. A long slow taper should not be harsh. Its when people go cold turkey or lower the dose too fast too soon that they get the bad reactions like seizures. You can treat that while doing the right thing for me/cfs at the same time. Do not push yourself into activities if you can avoid it.

Are they proposing to give you phenobarbitol instead of a benzo? If that stops the wd's then you could taper quickly without too much stress.
 
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