Heated Spaces

[Dysfunkion]

Does anyone here have issues with artificially heated spaces? I've had this happen before in certain buildings but I figured it was dust in the vents I may have been reacting too but now after a recent experience I'm not sure. So I get out of an appointment in a building that tends to be alright in that respect given I'm not in one of the center rooms of it where the heat levels are high (this isn't purely a temperature thing either, summer sun doesn't do this to me). So I got picked up by a Lyft and this person had the heat on high, their car was an oven! Since it was their car and the ride was only gonna be like 5 minutes I didn't make a fuss. The top of my head and my forehead just began feeling like someone was microwaving it, my brain fog increased dramatically and after I got out I could barely concentrate on anything. The burning feeling lasted long after and as the hours went on gradually tapered off but I guess now I need to be very careful with getting into those cars when the heating is on. Does anyone have any ideas on what this could be? Could it be a chemical used in the heating that when heated and vented can do this? Since it happened in a car the whole dust being moved idea is certainly out of the picture for me.

 

[Wishful]

Car heating systems just pass the air through a heat exchanger; no chemicals added. You could test whether it's just temperature by heating a small space using an electric heater or just solar heat gain. An infrared lamp might also trigger skin heat sensors, and maybe it's localized to part of your body. Another possibility is internal body temperature, by itself or compared to skin sensors.

Maybe it's just a response to signals from your heat sensors, misprocessing those signals, resulting in responses from other body systems. The body involves many interacting systems, so there's lots of potential for unwanted effects.

 

[Dysfunkion]

Car heating systems just pass the air through a heat exchanger; no chemicals added. You could test whether it's just temperature by heating a small space using an electric heater or just solar heat gain. An infrared lamp might also trigger skin heat sensors, and maybe it's localized to part of your body. Another possibility is internal body temperature, by itself or compared to skin sensors.

Maybe it's just a response to signals from your heat sensors, misprocessing those signals, resulting in responses from other body systems. The body involves many interacting systems, so there's lots of potential for unwanted effects.

Yeah this is a weird one, it doesn't make much sense. I've actually been next to a space heater a couple times this year on very cold days and this doesn't happen. The 1 place this will happen over and over again consistently is the inner rooms of the clinic place I go to where the heating is most intense in the Winter. I've never had it happen anywhere else but at the same time nowhere is ever heated as intensely as that place is. Even the heat going in a family members car doesn't do this but the heat blasting in that Lyft drivers car caused one of the worst, most confusing reactions I had to any stimulus in a while. The heat you could hear blasting out of the normal vents so there wasn't any abnormal heating system in the car you wouldn't find in any other car. Really left me scratching my head. Even my reactions to general EMF radiation don't feel like that, this felt like the heat sensors in my head amped up to max and for some reason couldn't turn off and probably in cascade caused a mast cell reaction. Was just fine before having an ordinary day.

 

[hapl808]

Yes, I've had it. No, I don't know what it is.

Car heating systems just pass the air through a heat exchanger; no chemicals added. You could test whether it's just temperature by heating a small space using an electric heater or just solar heat gain.

Sometimes if we don't know what we're testing for, intuition isn't enough.

For me, radiant heaters like ceramic really mess with my breathing. Not sure why. My regular vent furnace isn't great, but isn't terrible - but I keep charcoal filters over my vents (not the intake).

The best space heater types seem to be infrared radiant quartz (which I have to be right in front of) or an oil filled radiator.

No idea why - before my symptoms declined into moderate/severe, none of this stuff affected me at all. I thought people who talked about this stuff were just crazy, as it didn't make 'sense' to me. Still doesn't, but seems environmental because if I throw on a P100 with a gas cartridge, my respiratory symptoms disappear.

 

[Dysfunkion]

Yes, I've had it. No, I don't know what it is.



Sometimes if we don't know what we're testing for, intuition isn't enough.

For me, radiant heaters like ceramic really mess with my breathing. Not sure why. My regular vent furnace isn't great, but isn't terrible - but I keep charcoal filters over my vents (not the intake).

The best space heater types seem to be infrared radiant quartz (which I have to be right in front of) or an oil filled radiator.

No idea why - before my symptoms declined into moderate/severe, none of this stuff affected me at all. I thought people who talked about this stuff were just crazy, as it didn't make 'sense' to me. Still doesn't, but seems environmental because if I throw on a P100 with a gas cartridge, my respiratory symptoms disappear.

Would a space heater have a ceramic radiant one or what different types would you generally find in them? Does it say on the product page if it does? Sorry if that's a dumb question my knowledge on this sort of electrical stuff is next to none. But point still stands that space heaters don't tend to be an issue besides that car heating systems possibly to a certain intensity that I don't normally get exposed to (the people who I drive with don't crank it too high) and some building internal heating systems do this. I at work am near ovens and heaters often but this also doesn't happen there.

 

[hapl808]

Would a space heater have a ceramic radiant one or what different types would you generally find in them? Does it say on the product page if it does?

Many space heaters are ceramic heat. They seem to have a scent that bothers me, but I have no idea why. Product pages will usually specify.

For me, space heaters are an issue - but I think we're all different. Bluetooth doesn't seem to bother me, but wifi does (makes some sense for intensity).

But overall, it's all nonsense and if it weren't actually happening to me, not sure I'd believe any of it. I never noticed any smell to space heaters (other than the mildest scent) before I got MCS type symptoms. Now, running the dryer will ruin my breathing unless I turn off the heat and just use tumble dry.

 

[Dysfunkion]

Many space heaters are ceramic heat. They seem to have a scent that bothers me, but I have no idea why. Product pages will usually specify.

For me, space heaters are an issue - but I think we're all different. Bluetooth doesn't seem to bother me, but wifi does (makes some sense for intensity).

But overall, it's all nonsense and if it weren't actually happening to me, not sure I'd believe any of it. I never noticed any smell to space heaters (other than the mildest scent) before I got MCS type symptoms. Now, running the dryer will ruin my breathing unless I turn off the heat and just use tumble dry.

I could if I have enough saved up try out different types and narrow things down to see if I can get anywhere like that. I also know that I have problems adjusting to temperature too, going from a cold to hot environment quickly makes me extremely disoriented and lethargic but hot to cold isn't nearly as much of an issue where I'll at most get an over sensitive nervous system until I ironically can warm up in a more mild environment (like for example going in and out of the grocery store will always make me tolerate the outside Winter cold better than when I first stepped out of my unit).

I'm not sure on bluetooth as nothing I own is using bluetooth so I don't have much daily exposure to it but wifi if I'm stuck near a transmitter like a router can get dangerous very quickly. I don't know how long it takes specifically but I'm not going to find out. I remember when I first moved in here not knowning about the wifi router thing it was in my bedroom instead of a few rooms away like it is now. Felt like I was on the verge of having a stroke and seizure all the time, had to sleep downstairs and luckily after making enough of a fuss they moved the evil device to another room. I'm the only one with EMF sensitivity, the other person who lives here experiences nothing near it.

The hierarchy of EMF sensitivity with me is wifi/possible other intense wireless systems nearby ---> screen radiation (I use a VGA output and radiation filter on my PC monitor for this, can't handle HDMI) ---> computer/gaming system radiation (on my PC I make sure the CPU isn't overloaded often and have one of those EMF fabric covers on the tower multi layered, works well enough with the back open for circulation), cell phone radiation in general (will feel off if I play a game on it for too long, if I'm just browsing the internet on it like I usually am on break at work this doesn't get as bad. But I can't handle long calls without the nerves in my face feeling like someone dumped icy hot in them and intense brain fog with it).

And yeah that is the worst thing about these specific sensitivities, no one believes me. I had to figure all of this out myself because there is no recognition of conditions like this officially in the US. You can't just go to the ordinary store and buy high grade EMF shielding fabrics, specially designed radiation shields for modern tech like computer towers or gaming consoles, or special monitors/TV's with built in protection for people like me with severe EMF sensitivity. A lot of what could exist doesn't because of the lack of representation and how we're shot down any time we bring it up. My sensitivities were among the first things to get out of hand when my health due to a horrible job I had while living in an old mold ridden home that was only getting worse as time went on got much worse.

 

[kushami]

I have had heat intolerance for a long time, amd I find heaters that blow air to be the worst. So if there was a room with English-style radiators or electric panels heaters, I could handle that much better than a room with hot air vents or blowing heaters, even if the temperature was the same.

Of course, I would still prefer a cooler room, and that people would just wear a cardigan and have the temperature a little lower in winter instead of sitting in a t-shirt with it turned up to full.

I had to give up activities, e.g. choir, in the early days of my illness because rooms were too hot and blowy. Car heaters I also find awful, as they blow right on you in a confined space.

I should be working in a library in a Stately Home, wearing a tweed suit, in the 1930s

 

[Azayliah]

I've never reacted that way to dust (mostly get rashes and sore throats from it), but my chemical allergies have some similar symptoms, and I've always been more likely to have trouble with that when the chemicals are concentrated by heat. Maybe heating the car caused chemicals to release? Ex: upholstery (formaldehyde), plastics, rubber or glue or paint (latex), nickel (in metals, fragrances)... but any lingering foods, cleaning agents, smoke, etc. could have potentially caused it.

 

[Wishful]

One possibility is that a car's heating system often has cold moist air blowing through it before the engine heat comes along, so it could allow some microbes to grow, then get cooked, releasing spores and various chemicals. It might also cook airborne microbes, dust, etc, releasing chemicals. The ducting is usually plastic, so hot air would release some chemicals. Lots of possibilities, so you'd have to experiment with different situations.

 

[L'engle]

I've felt off from forced air heating in apartments and sometimes cars. Not sure why.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I can hardly tolerate the heat running.


For me, the electrons these things emit is something I am sensitive to.

 

[Wishful]

For me, the electrons these things emit is something I am sensitive to.

Thermoelectric emission requires at least red heat, and is very inefficient for most materials, and the emitted electrons can't travel far in air (micrometers?). So, probably not emitted electrons responsible.

 

[Wayne]

I got picked up by a Lyft and this person had the heat on high, their car was an oven!

I've heard that the film that builds up on the inside of the windshield is from the plastics in the car outgassing. I'm guessing they would outgas even faster when heat is on high. I've noticed I don't feel particularly well when I've been in a car with the heat needing to be turned up.

 

[southwestforests]

so it could allow some microbes to grow, then get cooked, releasing spores and various chemicals. It might also cook airborne microbes, dust, etc, releasing chemicals. The ducting is usually plastic, so hot air would release some chemicals.

And who knows what else might be coming from where in the remainder of the car interior.


Even though this 30-something year old apartment is inherently dusty, and residents of other apartments have commented same about their units, and I have cats with attendant hair and dander and litter, and I build plastic, metal, wooden, models and sand and file and and glue and paint them within said apartment ...

... and my dusty apartment's little bitty central air conditioning/heating unit and its ducting are that same 30 years old ...

... and I've lived here 16 years ...

... about 15 years ago I stopped having space heaters in my living space ...

... They just didn't feel right for reasons I could not pin specific thoughts on to. And that included previous space heaters in previous apartments.
A just barely defined and just barely conscious, Something is off with the things but they are a necessity so I will have them.
But this time I did not have any desire to get a new one, no desire, zero desire.
And so, did not, have not.

It was a much more intuitive than intellectual thing, that having the gizmos in my home any more was not good for me. I keep coming up as being very much an INFP on those personality type things, and what I'll term, "non-bulletpointed intuition" often serves me well. Don't bother intellectualizing it, just do it or don't do it, as appropriate.

Still am fully unable to specifically categorize and define a why, or a what, and hadn't specifically consciously thought about the matter at all until seeing this here.

Upon reading this I now consciously realize that space heaters are a thing and there is a why behind what I did and my resistance to getting any of them again.

Looking at my actions, I'd much rather cover the windows with 3 layers of that clear winterization plastic than have a space heater and that undefinable thing about space heaters is at least part of the why.

 

[Dysfunkion]

I've heard that the film that builds up on the inside of the windshield is from the plastics in the car outgassing. I'm guessing they would outgas even faster when heat is on high. I've noticed I don't feel particularly well when I've been in a car with the heat needing to be turned up.

I never thought about outgassing plastics. That gives me flashbacks to when I was working in Mc.Donalds a long time ago and had to quit because after every shift I felt horrible with intense brain fog, fatigue, and a crushing headache with another general weird feeling neurologically up there which might have been a flavor of the same reaction but from me way back in around 2015. In the kitchen there was plastic and extremely hot things touching them 24/7 and you directly inhale it the whole time you're in it. I was working in a kitchen before that and experienced nothing of the sort but it was a normal restaurant kitchen, worked in others after that too, and do now again with nothing like what happened in that McD's kitchen going on during/after my shift so it was definitely something in the air.

 

[Wishful]

I had to drive yesterday, and at one point I noticed that the car was getting a bit hot. I didn't feel the symptoms the OP described, but parts of my body were sending that "too warm" signal, which probably has various physiological effects on blood flow, sweat glands, various hormones, etc. I can easily accept that those effects can get messed up and trigger neurological symptoms such as a burning sensation. No airborne chemicals necessary.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Thermoelectric emission requires at least red heat, and is very inefficient for most materials, and the emitted electrons can't travel far in air (micrometers?). So, probably not emitted electrons responsible.

well, it generates static electricity and makes my hair get all weird, dries out my eyes and I quickly turn of the heater. Fortunately I rarely need one. Its easier to put on a sweater.

 

[Wishful]

well, it generates static electricity

No, I expect the heat just reduces humidity in the home, allowing static to develop from friction. Also, if you need to use a heater, outdoor humidity is low, so you might experience static build-up even without the heater being on. Getting out of my truck in winter usually means getting zapped when I touch the body. Low humidity also causes dry eyes and effects on hair.

Isn't physics wonderful?

 

[Wayne]

Getting out of my truck in winter usually means getting zapped when I touch the body.

I put a static strip on my car and was able to eliminate most of the zaps. Propane delivery trucks are required to have them to mitigate explosion risk by eliminating the random sparking from those zaps. Some people have reported having "car sickness" go away after installing one.

I've long thought a lot of pw/ME-CFS could possibly make traveling easier with one of them installed. One less stressor on the system can sometimes make a big difference for us.