Has anyone developed an intolerance for red meat?

[wciarci]

I just can't eat it. Five or six hours later I am in the loo. Painful. Wondering if this is just me or just us and what exactly is up with this?

Wendy

 

[Dreambirdie]

Have you tried Betaine HCl to help you digest it? If you don't have enough acid production in your stomach it will be very difficult to digest meat. I can't eat protein without it.

 

[cfs since 1998]

Probiotics an hour before eating has helped me.

 

[Cloud]

Not an "intolerance", but I have developed a "distaste" for it. I have loved meat my whole life up until about 3 years ago. Just don't like it anymore. Now I crave salads, fresh and whole foods. Meat makes me feel bogged down (even more), and I naturally moved away from it. About once a month I will have a steak....that's it.

With the digestion issue, couldn't hurt to have pancreatic function checked. Maybe some digestive (and systemic) enzymes would be helpful.

 

[Athene]

Finding read meat unbearable is one of the symptoms of B1 deficiency that some people get. Also lack of digestve enzymes is another possibility. I found betaine HCI too heavy going but I am fine with Bromelain tablets, which seem to be a bit gentler.

 

[wciarci]

I'll get some more digestive enzymes and I do take probiotics every day. I don't crave it or wish to eat it often but every once in a while I love a good cheeseburger or prime rib. It seems to run in my family, my Grandmother only ate chicken and fish. My sister has given up red meat for the same reason. Of course we could all have xmrv too, so I was wondering about that. I know that some viruses love to hide in the stomach and gut. My grandmother was ill her whole life, as was my Dad and I am beginning to think that I have been ill longer than I thought. My family and friends remind me that growing up I was often tired and needed more sleep than anyone they knew. I was never into going to parties as I kept to a strict sleep schedule for the most part. I think xmrv may have been in hiding for years and just exploded with stress and a co-infection. Thanks all. I ran out of olive leaf extract this week and just picked up another bottle. I feel really tired.

Wendy

 

[Victoria]

Many years ago, in my efforts to find the "right" diet, I quit eating red meat.

I only lasted about 5 months (eating only fish & chicken). I just got too tired. i had no energy at all. So I went back to red meat. Some people do fine on a vegetarian diet, but not me. I feel I need to eat some meat.

Interestingly, my best friend, a vegetarian for over 30 years, now gets cravings for meat, so every now & then has some lamb or chicken. She said she couldn't bear to eat red meat, but now gives into her cravings when they arise.

Since going back to organic food about 2 years ago, I've cut back on red meat again (because organic meat is about twice to three times the price of supermarket meat). But I ensure I have at least 2 meals of red meat a week. This works for me.

I also have more eggs these days (even though I'm not keen on eggs).

I THINK I've got my protein intake right now.

2 x organic scotch eye steak (or some lean lamb chops in the Spring when lamb is particularly tasty)
2 x fresh organic salmon
2 x fresh turkey breast (no bones or skin)
& an egg or vegetarian meal

It took me a long time to work out this (surprisingly - you'd think it was easy wouldn't you). Sometimes I vary it, like this week I've got a small whole organic chicken, which will last 4 meals, so at the end of those 4 meals of white meat, I will eat some red meat (before I eat a fish meal again).

And it costs a fair bit, but I cut down on other things so I can afford it at the moment.

If you're tired, I really DO recommend red meat. But you do need to balance the acid load with plenty of vegetables & fruits (for their fibre content, otherwise you can get constipated on too much meat).

As others have suggested, taking some probiotics can help (although I've never felt a need for them, myself).

PS I ate a fairly strict vegetarian diet for about 3years, about 25 years ago, but back in those days I could eat lentils, beans & tofu - lentils & beans give me severe bowel pain these days).

 

[Cloud]

Gotta agree about the need for protein, especially with our disease. I get mine from supplements, grains, nuts and seeds, and white meat. It's mostly red meat that makes me feel like hurling.....but we are inviting big time trouble without enough protein. Dr Peterson made a big issue of it with me.....I don't absorb AA's (amino acids) very well, so he put me on IV AA's.

 

[wciarci]

Hi Vikkie and Cloud. I know I should eat more protein. I eat eggs nearly every day (we have chickens). I am ordering digestive enzymes so I will try these when I eat. How can I put this? Constipation is not the issue, more the reverse. I am thinking of buying meat from organic, grass fed cows, to see if this helps and will be attempting a gluten free diet. I think an amino acid supplement wouldn't hurt either. Thanks for posting. So tired.

Wendy

 

[Adam]

I gave up all meat 20 years ago, 6 years before viral onset CFS/ME. About 10 years ago I became lactose intolerant. Despite being lactose free I have chronic IBS. Sometime after I became lactose intolerant I went back to eating fish occasionally, due to not being able to eat any milk products. I have soya milk with tea and on cereal. Protein should not be a problem for anyone considering giving up red meat (or all meat). It just takes a bit of research and a little effort. For instance, there are a number of meat substitutes - Textured vegetable Protein, and in UK, Quorn (not sure if this is available outside UK).

I have been an in patient with CFS/ME on four occasions. Whilst in hospital - diet is something the NHS seems to keen to check up on. My vegetarian diet got the thumbs up.

I don't want to promote being veggie. I have never done so. A few people over the years have shown an interest and asked me stuff like 'What do you eat then?' I have provided information only. No encouragement. I occasionally prepare meat for my son and don't have any problem with anyone else eating meat. No axe to grind. Conversely, a number of people over the years have been quite vociferous in attacking my lifestyle choice!

If you have any reason to believe meat may in any way be causing you a health problem, it is possible to give it up. Before I went veggie I ate anything and everything - including offal, black pudding etc. I don't miss it and never have.

If only I could give up my ten roll-ups a day!

Oh well.

 

[IntuneJune]

Wendy and her chickens

Wendy!!!

How wonderful you have chickens. Not until a few years ago, did I appreciate a FRESH egg from a happy chicken who could run around all day.

Up until that time an egg was an egg. I never gave it a thought, never knew chickens were caged one on top of another. Then I saw some pictures, read a few articles in a magazine bought for another reason--not to learn more about eggs. So the next time I drove by the sign at the edge of a dirt driveway that said "farm, fresh eggs" I drove in.

The small farm is a wonderful experience, there are peacocks, a donkey, sheep, geese and of course chickens.

They cost more of course but worth it. The first time I broke open the egg to place it on a bed of spinach, (one of my favorite breakfasts) I was surprised, the yoke was so BRIGHT!! A beautiful golden orange. The taste far better.

The owner of the farm has her "chicken stories" she is so interesting.

Wendy, do you have any adventures with your chickens you could share?

June

 

[IntuneJune]

Red meat

Another thing to consider about red meat:

Over the past year, I have made a conserted effort to be more aware. This has not been easy as my mind seems to churn away like a ping pong ball.

I am applying this "awareness" to food. All aspects of food. And one of those aspects?? Chewing. I was always in a rush especially after having children..... and this applied to eating. I have always tracked calories, nutrition, eliminated the trigger foods and allergy foods, cost, etc; BUT now, I am trying to be more aware of the time spent eating my food. Making an effort to place the food in my mouth and appreciate taste, textures, AND, that was a really BIG AND, take more time to chew my food.

Since I have been applying this technique, I have come to the conclusion, I was not chewing meat long enough.

And as I was reading this thread this morning, I was having a 3 oz piece of steak and vegetables for breakfast. So, I counted how many chews it took for just one piece of that 3 oz. steak.......90-100 chomps. WOW, never knew. Now before I brought this awareness to EATING my food, I would not have taken that much time and not chewed for that long. But, this is the proper way to eat!

June

 

[Cloud]

Lol, I caught that about the chickens too. My family lived in part "off the land/self sufficient" and we always had chickens when I was a kid. It was a great way to grow up. I am actually now living back on that family mountain property...I had to move out here to be able to pay for all my healthcare. Beautiful, but too secluded.....I would rather be in town being that guy everyone called "dynamic".....Actually, I would love to be anywhere and be that guy again. I am grateful to have a place to come and stay.
Wendy...I agree that "constipation vs the reverse" is diagnostic as to what this problem your having is all about. It could mean several things, but most likely is one from the list of common CFS GI symptoms, like IBS.

June, you would probably like ayurvedic medicine with it's awareness of food energy and methods of eating....another thing came to mind reading your post is the group at the Findhorn gardens with their focus on plant life. I read their books years ago and if your interested I would recommend reading the first book.."the Findhorn Garden". Website http://www.findhorn.org/index.php?tz=420

ok, I've gone completely rouge off topic.....hugss all

 

[xchocoholic]

I'm sticking with organic grass fed beef at this point but I still need a Betaine HCL with it. Ground meat of any sort is out for me. I just can't digest all that grizzle they put in it.

It's funny, when I first went on this diet, I craved rare beef but now I'm craving fish of all kinds. And chicken and turkey were making me too sleepy so I stopped that a while back.

Oh but Chili's baby back ribs hit the spot the other day too ... yum ... x

 

[wciarci]

Thank you Intune, Cloud, xchocoholic, I am trying to be more aware of what I eat, when I eat, etc. I love fresh organic eggs and the yolks are so orange and packed with protein and rich. I was a vegetarian for some years but started to crave meat. I will try grass fed, as I mentioned. The eggs though too have the same IBS issue. I am so good with an anti-yeast diet and probiotics.

I love the farm life and am just 30 minutes from a city with culture, so I am lucky. I get to indulge in both parts of myself.

Intune, I do have funny stories about the chickens. We first went foul, so to speak, when we acquired guinnea hens to take care of our horrible tick problem. They were very entertaining. I named them all Helen after a friend of my mother's that never shut's up. We had 12 and my mom called my husband, the 13th guinnea (he is Italian). Anyway, the yuppies next store hated them and we gave them away and got chickens. Eggs, I thought, and not so much trouble. Well we started with Atilla, a limpy rooster, Joan (Crawford) a Jersey Giant and a couple of bantees. We ordered more, a couple of pullet silver laced (Marilyn and Jane), some barred rocks with a rooster, some silver and gold laced wyndottes and some aracuana's. There turned out to be four roosters out of the flock so we started naming them. They killed Atilla one day. :-( and then they grew up and became rapists. Roosters really are nasty, the hens are all missing feathers on their backs. Any way, we are down to Custer and Patton for roosters (we name them after generals) and the aracuana who were so docile have all been eaten but we have their offspring. They lay blue or green eggs (no ham). Custer and Patton recently fought and Patton is missing an eye :-(. Custer was such a docile rooster that I am surprised at his newfound aggression. Joan is still alive and lays the biggest eggs anyone has ever seen. (No wire hangers!). They eat out of my hand and I couldn't eat them. Once you name an animal....

Love the chickens and love you guys, and gals.

Wendy (I feel I might reclaim my tag as Wenderella soon)

 

[IntuneJune]

"Incoming"

Oh my gosh, Wendy, I had visions of a lush green, peaceful, gentle, sunny farm yard, and what you described sounds like a battle field!!

The gal, from whom I buy the eggs, has told me a few tales, but the stories were more about the interactions between the roosters and humans. She has to be pretty agile and coordinated getting into the hen house before the rooster zeros in on her approach.

Twenty five years ago, while I was at work, my coworker got a call from her husband. Her three girls were crying in the background and her husband wasn't in much control either. The truck from the slaughter house had arrived for the scheduled pickup of Daisey, their cow who was raised for the purpose of supplying the family with meat. Everyone knew this from the start.

But, when the time came to put Daisey on the truck, no one would do it. The driver,under the circumstances, with the whole family in tears, would not do it either. So, Joy got the call at work. She hung up, told me "I will be right back" "Where are you going Joy" "Home, someone has to push Daisey on the truck!"

I would be a vegetarian if there were no one to "neaten" up the act and wrap meats -- surgically cut and wrapped so tightly....

Cloud, thanks for the information, it would be very interesting to learn more.

June

 

[Victoria]

Wendy,

Undercooked eggs (& meat) can cause diarrhoea (read my Blog on My Rotten Gut for some of my own experiences with chronic daily diarrhoea for 2 1/2 years).

Try deleting eggs, milk & dairy from your diet for a week & see if it improves.

Also get a feaces test done to exclude any of those parasites & similar bugs, before you put it all down to red meat consumption.

(Don't they recommend just ONE rooster for a harem of chickens? Stops the boys fighting over the girls ).

 

[wciarci]

Yes Vikkie, I should have only one. I didn't realize how aggressive they were until it was too late. Intune, not everyday is a battleground and the fights are short, usually. The problem with hatching chicks to fill in the flock (we have a lot of coyotes here and our neighbor's dogs killed 6 hens last year), is that you get what you get and there is bound to be a boy or two. The hens all prefer Custer to Patton who has only one consort. Custer is much more gentle. When I go outside to fed them some day old bread he always lets the hens eat and he just stands guard.

Mostly it is very peaceful at our place, we have an old goat and two horses, but I am trying to find homes for the horses. Too much work. I did have two hens who would fly up on my shoulder and walk around with me.

 

[Athene]

For what it's worth, I get diarrhoea from eggs because I have an IgG allergy to them. Could be the reason...

 

[wciarci]

Wow, I just read 'Opening Pandora's Bread Box'. I always eat eggs and toast. humm. and I thought I was so smart. With what Intune and Vikkie have suggested I am going on a radical elimination diet and will probably eliminate all wheat and gluten forever. I did do an elimination diet 6 years ago and remember that dairy wasn't an issue but I will try again. I also read up on Freddd's B12 protocol and will add some different B12 and folonic acid. I take the shots but I use the wrong B12.

Intune, I feel so bad that I thoughtlessly told you what are apparently frightening stories. Here in the country most folks laugh and then one-up-you. I have to remember to tailor the stories for the audience. Most of the time I remember that we here are sensitive. Some many people in my area raise cows for meat, I could never do it.

Wenderella